Apple ][ Clone

[Isolationist]

I have just reacently recieved an Apple ][ clone. I had a look inside it and found the 6502 but to my surprise a Z80 was there too.

I understand the original Apple ][ was 6502 based, what's the Z80 doing there?

[8BIT]

I had a LASER 128 which was an Apple ][E & Apple ][C clone. It had a socket for an optional Z-80. As I recall, the manual explained that the 65C02 could be disabled in software and the Z-80 enabled to allow you to use CP/M software. I don't know if other Clones had this feature or not.

My Laser was a good machine, although the built-in disk drive failed on both of the machines I owned. I have long since scrapped the machines, but kept both the 65C02 and the OS EPROM.

Daryl

[esarintulo]

Ah,Ah.....
Well,the Z80 (and the entire IC's row where it belongs) replaces the
usual Ms add-on card.You insert the CPM disk into the drive,reboot and the "APPLE" brain switches automatically to CPM.Another miracle due to Job's and Wozniak's clever machinery.
Have fun,

René.

[skurk]

Isolationist wrote:

I have just reacently recieved an Apple ][ clone. I had a look inside it and found the 6502 but to my surprise a Z80 was there too.

What's the name of this computer?

This is just a shot in the dark, but who knows, maybe we have the same machine.. I have an old Norwegian Apple ][ clone called West PC 800. It has both a 6502 and a Z80 on the motherboard, you can see pictures of it here:

http://multinet.no/~skurk/westpc/

All comments are in norwegian, but to sum them up:

It was shipped with an internal 300 baud modem, burglar alarm for your house, disk controller with 5.14" floppy drive. and some more nifty stuff. This is the West PC production number 426 out of a couple of thousand, and today, it's probably one of a handful left in the world.

[EmbeddedBob]

You should contact Ernest, the webmaster at www.apple2clones.com. He has a very large collection of clones and information on about 168 different machines. A lot of the clone owners hang out there. If anyone knows much about that machine, they'll be at that site.

Bob

[skurk]

EmbeddedBob wrote:

You should contact Ernest, the webmaster at www.apple2clones.com. He has a very large collection of clones and information on about 168 different machines. A lot of the clone owners hang out there. If anyone knows much about that machine, they'll be at that site.

Hey thanks for the tip, mate! I've already submitted images of the computer there, and will probably submit even more as I get this machine in better condition.

Cheers!

[Ernest]

That is a very cool clone! I've never seen or even heard of it before, but it's on the site now. Skurk, you should definitely add more pictures and information for it as you have time. I wonder if your clone was sold as a home security system, rather than as a desktop computer? If so, that might explain why no one has heard of it (as an Apple clone.) It's surprising how many "industrial" clones were built to run automated tasks. Apple II's are certainly the perfect computer for that sort of thing, though. I few years ago, I saw several rack-mount clones for sale on Ebay Germany. They weren't the prettiest computers to look at but I thought that they were great. I would love to have one of those to add to the server racks at work! It would be fun to play a few quick games of Karateka while things are compiling on the test box.

I've confirmed that there were at least 171 different clones built, but I only have pictures of 131 of them. Everytime I think there can't be anymore, a new one like your West PC 800 turns up. Happily for me, the list just keeps growing.

Ernest
http://apple2clones.com

[Ernest]

Hey, Isolationist

Adding the Z80 to the Apple II (clone) motherboards was more common than I realized when I started collecting information on Apple II clones. I've even seen a few that have the 6502 and ROMs on a seperate card, sort of like the MS Softcard, only in reverse. The Intertek System IV is an example of this. Those computers would function as a normal -but expandible- Z80 computer even without the 6502 card plugged in, which would have made it much easier to sneak them through customs after Apple started to get tough on the clone makers.

What kind of clone do you have? Do you have any pictures of the computer and motherboard?

Bob is laughing at me right now.

[skurk]

Ernest wrote:

That is a very cool clone! I've never seen or even heard of it before, but it's on the site now. Skurk, you should definitely add more pictures and information for it as you have time.

Thanks! I got this machine in 1987 (I think) and this was the computer that introduced me to assembly programming - and have been stuck there ever since. I'll upload more images of this computer later, let me know if you want to see anything in particular.

Ernest wrote:

I wonder if your clone was sold as a home security system, rather than as a desktop computer?

I don't remember, I think this computer was marketed as both. Apparently noone got the security system to work (or at least I've never heard of anyone who did). The introduction price back then was about 20,000 NOK (~$3,000).

Ernest wrote:

If so, that might explain why no one has heard of it (as an Apple clone.)

I believe only a couple of thousand machines were sold before West Computers got sued by Apple for producing unlicensed clones (IIRC).

This computer isn't working at the moment, a separate card in front handling the keyboard is physically broken - yes, it's cracked and missing a piece! Until I find a replacement, I'm stuck with about 50 floppies filled with memories waiting for an evening filled with nostalgia. Getting such a card these days may be hard, so I'm currently browsing eBay for an used Apple ][. If anyone's got one spare and want to sell it cheap, then let me know

[Ernest]

That is a real shame about the broken card. Do you think that it could be rebuilt? I don't know what your skill level with something like that is, but I'll bet that you could find someone here or at comp.sys.apple2 newsgroup to help you if you needed it.

A computer like that (in my opinion) is certainly worth the effort. If they only sold 2000 systems, it's possible that your computer might be the last one in existence, or at best, one of only a few. Do you know of any others?

Also, I'm sure that you will have no problem finding an Apple II on Ebay. I would recommend the IIe, because they are cheap, easy to find, and basically better than the II+. Or you could look for a clone. Good luck.

[erd]

Ernest wrote:

I would recommend the IIe, because they are cheap, easy to find, and basically better than the II+.

That depends on your goals and skills, I suppose... Personally, I prefer the II+ because they are easier to repair (lots of discrete TTL chips rather than several LSI chips). I will admit that the IIe is easier to deal with for things like 80 column card, etc.

The IIe is cheap enough that you could probably get a spare, though.

-ethan

[Thrashbarg]

ok, I know it's not recommended to dig up old posts, but I figured i'd better reply to this.

I was known as the Isolationist, due to some nastyness that was happening during 2003. I'm Thrashbarg now. For those who have read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy you will probably know that the character Old Thrashbarg is something of a raving idiot. I figured it was appropriate.

With this old Apple ][, I have no idea what brand it is. There wasnt any lables on it at all. So I scrapped it. Technology is only truely appreciated when lying in pieces all over a table.

btw, I found myself some old boards with 8080A CPU's on them (4 in total). I decided to make a computer out of them, which isnt finished. Wirewrapping is a nightmare so as soon as i get a laser printer I'll redo the lot with etched PCB's. To be honest, I'd rather redo it with a 6502 CPU. I don't know why but I like it more than the 8080/Z80 archetecture, though I don't want to waste 4 original Intel 8080A's.

http://kaput.homeunix.org/~thrashbarg/8080

This method to make the PCB's looks hopeful too.

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

I know this realy should be posted in a new thread..... meh.

[LGB]

Isolationist wrote:

I have just reacently recieved an Apple ][ clone. I had a look inside it and found the 6502 but to my surprise a Z80 was there too.
I understand the original Apple ][ was 6502 based, what's the Z80 doing there?

Well, tough I've no Apple ][ or its clone I guess Z80 is for running CP/M,
like the Z80 in Commodore 128, or the Commodore 64 Z80 cartridge was developer for this purpose as well.

[BigEd]

Just discovered this thread about hundreds of Apple II clones and some of them being Z80-equipped for CP/M purposes, and find that link rot has set in. So here are some links to archives:

Ernest's compendium of over 200 clones:
http://web.archive.org/web/200709131618 ... lones.com/?
Loads of info and pictures here and here.

Skurk's West PC 800 with pictures:
http://web.archive.org/web/200407071544 ... rk/westpc/

Quote:

... an old Norwegian Apple ][ clone called West PC 800. It has both a 6502 and a Z80 on the motherboard... It was shipped with an internal 300 baud modem, burglar alarm for your house, disk controller with 5.14" floppy drive. and some more nifty stuff. This is the West PC production number 426 out of a couple of thousand, and today, it's probably one of a handful left in the world.