Like you say, it's a matter of culture. We're not being racist, although racial differences often come with culture differences too, which is why I don't recommend inter-racial marriages to young people. Marriage is enough work as it is, without adding cultural differences to the mix.

My employer has done business with various companies in Korea, and we find this kind of corruption I mentioned. Ex-employees I kept in contact with for a little while after they left and went to work for competitors say their new employers experience the same thing there. It's so much easier and better to do the business in the States, but cost-prohibitive in many cases.

The city we live near has about 87,000 people. A friend who's a sergeant on the police force there says they have anywhere from five to fifteen cops out on the beat at a time, depending on what time of day or night, and whether it's a weekend or holiday. Some students from China visited and stayed with my mother-in-law in this city, and they couldn't figure out how things could stay orderly when they weren't seeing policemen everywhere. They kept asking, "Where are the police?" because they never saw any. Different culture.

The country where I grew up had very little serious crime, but litter was everywhere. People walking down the side walk (and there was a lot more pedestrian traffic!) would unwrap a candy or chewing gum and just drop the wrapper on the side walk, without a thought. They could also argue very loudly without it getting personal.

Culture differences. You can't always ignore them when choosing where and how to do business.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

...and there is also a fair amount of counterfeiting going on. One cannot put one's head in the sand about it. In an ideal world, we could all trust everyone. My 31 years as a self-employed individual who has had to deal with a lot of different personalities and businesses has taught me to be cautious about where I procure parts.


Not at all a generalization, but a well known fact. In the USA, the overwhelming majority of the counterfeit goods that arrive from overseas arrive from the Orient, mostly but not always from the PRC.


As do I. However, I feel no trepidation in pointing out when a specific group chronically behaves in a certain (undesirable) fashion.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

True, BDD, most true... I live in France, so-called "pays des droits de l'homme" and, as years pass by I keep thinking more and more often : "human rights" ? yes, but human DUTIES are at least if not more important. It's up to us to tell and learn that to our children.

Oh oh... from chips to philosophy ? not that bad except for the thread subject, maybe.

Marc

I'm looking forward getting at least two old, NOS R65C02 processors, at any speed. After having tried to get them on eBay and ending with a bunch of counterfeits, I'd rather get them somewhere else even if they're pricier. Could anybody suggest a thrustworthy place to get them?

It's not for a programming project, and I really need Rockwell-packaged R65C02s.

Thank you.

Query: How does one determine if the R65C02 you receive is a counterfeit?

The reason I ask is that I bought 4 R65C02P4 units off an eBay vendor in Hon Kong not long ago and they work perfectly.

_________________
Bill

It might be handy to name suppliers which have delivered acceptable product. Otherwise we end up with positions like 'all sellers from China are problematic' or 'all sellers from China are excellent' neither of which helps all that much. Neither does 'buyer beware' help a lot in practice. Certainly chasing the very lowest price seems more likely to result in some disappointment. Buying only from suppliers with 100% reputation might help.

A note concerning Jameco Electronics: they are no longer carrying WDC products of any kind. In fact, a search of their site for "65C02" failed to return any results. Their catalog also appears to no longer have any references to the 65C02—I could only find the 6502 in 1 MHz.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

You may want to build a simple Arduino tester like the one I made for the W65C02s I received from China: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5141

Try running CMOS instructions like BRA or PHX, then extended Rockwell instructions (RMBx), then WDC instructions (WAI).

Aside from that, do some appearance checks like checking that the color of the IC on the bottom looks like that on the top (which for rebadged, they won't since they remove the upper part to re-etch another part number), that the packaging looks like Rockwell's (such as notch position and size) and that the internal serial code on the bottom matches that of other Rockwells.

Might it be true that chips advertised as Rockwells are unlikely to be counterfeit, simply because they have a lower market value? I'm only speculating. But if I saw chips on EBay advertised as being 14 MHz WDC parts I'd be more suspicious.

_________________
In 1988 my 65C02 got six new registers and 44 new full-speed instructions!
https://laughtonelectronics.com/Arcana/ ... mmary.html

That makes sense. I'm not to sure how many people are actually looking for the older CMOS chips.

Another way to tell if your supposed CMOS chip is real and not a rebadged NMOS chip would be power consumption. That would be a dead giveaway. To see if it was a real WDC chip instead of a rebadged older CMOS would be to look for a negative going pulse on VP just after reset goes high.

_________________
Bill

I am well aware that Rockwell can be counterfeit as well.

Otherwise these come from a parallel universe in which Rockwell still exist in 2014

Do they work and are they CMOS?

_________________
Bill

I tested these with the tester I had made for the other fake 65C02s I had received, but that's before I found out I had the data pins wired backwards, and the only thing I am sure is that it did not write to stack on boot.

I'll try again this evening now that I've sorted that out.

Apparently, they do work but they are not CMOS:

This is the result of executing:

I wonder if a simple measurement of an input pin would do it - for example, TTL inputs pull high, weakly, IIRC. CMOS inputs are (mostly) capacitative (but there will probably be protection diodes too.)

(Edit: only a fool would have wondered that, and it seems I am that fool. Thanks Jeff for the correction.)