New videos on the 65C816

[cbmeeks]

The 65C816 doesn't get much YouTube love (and, honestly, the 65C02 could use even more).

Anyway, YouTube actually did something I couldn't believe. It actually recommended a video that turned out to be something I enjoy! Perhaps you will too.


https://www.youtube.com/c/AdrienKohlbecker

[BigDumbDinosaur]

cbmeeks wrote:

The 65C816 doesn't get much YouTube love (and, honestly, the 65C02 could use even more).

Anyway, YouTube actually did something I couldn't believe. It actually recommended a video that turned out to be something I enjoy! Perhaps you will too.

https://www.youtube.com/c/AdrienKohlbecker

I found the narrator hard to understand and moved on after about two minutes of trying to figure out what he was saying. Also, while he gave prominent mention to Ben Eater, he made no mention of Garth's website, which I think is much more informative and was likely the source for Ben's content.

[J64C]

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Also, while he gave prominent mention to Ben Eater, he made no mention of Garth's website, which I think is much more informative and was likely the source for Ben's content.

That’s the thing though. It’s quite possible that the dude that did the YouTube videos doesn’t even know about Garth’s site, so he is giving credit to the person who provided him the initial information (Ben Eater).

If you do a search for ‘W65C02 Tutorial’, Garths site is nowhere to be seen. Yet, Ben Eater is on the first page. As awesome as Garths site is, it doesn’t appear to be greatly promoted and is suffering as a result.

Ben may cop a lots of flack, but he has certainly positioned himself as the ‘Authority figure’ on the subject. Whether he is or isn’t is a different discussion, but that’s what he is now perceived as and that perception is only going to grow.

I only found out about Garths site by direct referral from WDC themselves and yes, once you know about his site it’s an excellent reference.


As for the videos in the OP, I just started having a watch now and am finding them to be a pretty good overview too, taking in to account propagation delays and all sorts of stuff.

[GARTHWILSON]

J64C wrote:

If you do a search for ‘W65C02 Tutorial’, Garth's site is nowhere to be seen.

I don't have any tutorials in the strict sense of the word, but I just added the word anyway to the keywords in the meta html tag at the top of the 6502 primer index page. If you look up "6502 primer" or any of several other terms though, my site is at the very top of the first page of Google's search results (even though I don't use Google).

[BigDumbDinosaur]

I personally find most U-Toobe "tutorials" to be of limited value. To me, the printed page seems to be better at conveying complex technical matter than a video, especially one in which the narrator is difficult to understand.

And then there are the commercials that have infested U-Toobe...they pop up in the middle of videos, which is extremely annoying.

[J64C]

GARTHWILSON wrote:

J64C wrote:

If you do a search for ‘W65C02 Tutorial’, Garth's site is nowhere to be seen.

I don't have any tutorials in the strict sense of the word, but I just added the word anyway to the keywords in the meta html tag at the top of the 6502 primer index page. If you look up "6502 primer" or any of several other terms though, my site is at the very top of the first page of Google's search results (even though I don't use Google).

Very true. But you need to think like the average newbie, for what wording to target.

Looking at Google Keyword Tool:

‘6502 Tutorial’ gets average 100 searches a month.
‘6502 Primer’ gets zero.

100 isn’t much either. But it’s a hell of a lot more than zero.

Funnily enough the search ‘Ben Eater’ gets up to 10,000 a month.

If the theory that Ben copied directly from Garths gear holds true, then it seems that he found Garths page to be a very good reference also and took the initiative to run with it. He now seems to have a good little money earner going on, as a result. Good luck to him for being enterprising, he saw a gap and took the opportunity to become the ‘defacto’ reference on the 6502.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

GARTHWILSON wrote:

J64C wrote:

If you do a search for ‘W65C02 Tutorial’, Garth's site is nowhere to be seen.

I don't have any tutorials in the strict sense of the word, but I just added the word anyway to the keywords in the meta html tag at the top of the 6502 primer index page. If you look up "6502 primer" or any of several other terms though, my site is at the very top of the first page of Google's search results (even though I don't use Google).

The word "primer" seems to have diminished in current usage when referring to a source of information. A search on "primer" on Ixquick turned up many references to paint primer, primers used with ammunition, a movie called Primer, etc., but not much about printed matter. Perhaps it's time to replace "6502 Primer" with "6502 Tutorial," even though referring to your primer in that fashion is technically incorrect. Or, perhaps an altogether different title, such as "Build A 6502 Computer", would do more to get search engines to index your site.

Incidentally, a search in Ixquick on "6502" brings up, in order, Wikipedia, Ben Eater, and then 6502.org. In examining the 6502.org home page source code, I didn't see any meta keywords, which are what search engines usually examine first when indexing a site.

[BigEd]

J64C wrote:

...you need to think like the average newbie, for what wording to target.

A crucial point! One might have opinions as to what people ought to search for, but that doesn't help.

Quote:

Looking at Google Keyword Tool:

‘6502 Tutorial’ gets average 100 searches a month.
‘6502 Primer’ gets zero.

100 isn’t much either. But it’s a hell of a lot more than zero.

Interesting finding!

[akohlbecker]

cbmeeks wrote:

The 65C816 doesn't get much YouTube love (and, honestly, the 65C02 could use even more).

Anyway, YouTube actually did something I couldn't believe. It actually recommended a video that turned out to be something I enjoy! Perhaps you will too.


https://www.youtube.com/c/AdrienKohlbecker

Hey! Author here; thank you for posting the link. I really appreciate it, and it is encouraging to see people enjoying the series. I meant to make a post here but never got around to it.

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

I found the narrator hard to understand and moved on after about two minutes of trying to figure out what he was saying.

I'm not a native speaker, but I spend a lot of time manually writing subtitles for the videos to make them accessible to everyone. May I suggest you try to enable them next time you're on U-Toobe?

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Also, while he gave prominent mention to Ben Eater, he made no mention of Garth's website, which I think is much more informative and was likely the source for Ben's content.

I'm not aware of the history between Ben and this forum. It certainly seems like you and he have unresolved issues. Still, I'm not sure what that has to do with my videos. Any content that helps new people join the hobby and participate in the community is valuable to me. Ben certainly did more than his fair share of that, and I hope to have just as positive of an impact.

Now, the design I'm building on my videos is entirely my own, and I'm designing it as I go. However, I will add a link to the 6502.org website (which links to Garth's primer in the tutorials section I believe) and mention the forums as I think these are great resources for people to learn more about the CPU. Thank you for the suggestion.

[BigEd]

Welcome Adrien! There are only one or two negative or strident voices about Ben - rather more members here are happy to see the interest in 6502 and the people who come here for help, who might yet become 6502 fanatics and make further contributions here.

It's just that negative messages somehow seem to get more prominence.

Thanks for your video too - of course it would be great if that too brings more energy to the 6502 and 816 hobbyist space.

Always good, of course, if you can help to bring people to this forum, to the reference materials on this site, and to Garth's primer.

[akohlbecker]

J64C wrote:

As for the videos in the OP, I just started having a watch now and am finding them to be a pretty good overview too, taking in to account propagation delays and all sorts of stuff.

Thank you! My goal is to go into more detail and be complementary to other videos you can find in this space, like Ben's, for example around hardware issues like timing, and build a more powerful and featureful computer as a result.

BigEd wrote:

Welcome Adrien! There are only one or two negative or strident voices about Ben - rather more members here are happy to see the interest in 6502 and the people who come here for help, who might yet become 6502 fanatics and make further contributions here.

It's just that negative messages somehow seem to get more prominence.

Thanks for your video too - of course it would be great if that too brings more energy to the 6502 and 816 hobbyist space.

Always good, of course, if you can help to bring people to this forum, to the reference materials on this site, and to Garth's primer.

Appreciate the warm welcome. I'm considering making a project thread here that I can link to from my videos, so we can exchange ideas.

[BigEd]

That would be great!

[Dr Jefyll]

(Belated) welcome, akohlbecker !

-- Jeff

[BigDumbDinosaur]

akohlbecker wrote:

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

I found the narrator hard to understand and moved on after about two minutes of trying to figure out what he was saying.

I'm not a native speaker, but I spend a lot of time manually writing subtitles for the videos to make them accessible to everyone. May I suggest you try to enable them next time you're on U-Toobe?

I don't think it was a problem with you not being a native speaker. The audio seemed muffled and heavy on the bass, and I was having some trouble making out distinct words. I will take another look with the bass attenuated and the treble cranked up to see if it's clearer.

Quote:

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Also, while he gave prominent mention to Ben Eater, he made no mention of Garth's website, which I think is much more informative and was likely the source for Ben's content.

I'm not aware of the history between Ben and this forum. It certainly seems like you and he have unresolved issues.

I don't have any "issues" with Mr. Eater—I don't know him and have never communicated with him. I was observing, as have others, that some of his content seems to be very much like what is at Garth's site, the latter which has been around longer than any Eater videos. I am not accusing Mr. Eater of plagiarism, however, I and others have also noted that the 6502 kit that he sells embodies a circuit that has a more-than-passing resemblance to the one Garth published on his site long ago. I just like to see attribution given where it is due.

Quote:

Still, I'm not sure what that has to do with my videos.

The mention of Ben Eater came up in the conversation due to you recommending to viewers that his site be visited.

Quote:

Any content that helps new people join the hobby and participate in the community is valuable to me.

Yep! It's valuable to any of us who are interested in the 6502 family.

BigEd wrote:

It's just that negative messages somehow seem to get more prominence.

Quit looking under the bed, Ed. There are no monsters there. I made an observation about a linked video. To use your favorite admonition, if you don't like what I write, please don't read it and don't make negative comments about it.

[cbmeeks]

Hey, I didn't mean to start any controversy.

For the record, I am actually a Patreon of Ben Eater. Not because I have learned a ton from him, but because I find his videos entertaining. And, to be honest, there aren't any better videos in terms of QUALITY (lighting, focus, etc.) for the 6502 as his.

But I think Eater has done for the 6502 what the Arduino "foundation" has done for micro-controllers and general electronics. Brought in lots of people that wouldn't have normally gotten into this hobby. So that's a good thing.

Anyway, the point of this was to bring attention to akohlbecker's efforts in starting something around the '816. Which gets almost no attention anywhere. At least not compared to the Z80, 6502, etc.

Another MPU that gets no love is the 68K but I will save that for another forum. ;-D