And the winner is ....

After looking more into the datasheets (and the price sheets) I got me Rigol DS1202CA. 2 channel, 200MHz bandwidth, 2GSamples/sec, 10kpts memory (one channel, 5kpts per channel for 2channels]). I got a good offer and also stretched my original budget a bit though... But your suggestion to get the best bandwidth I could get stuck, and as I said I like good tools.

First I wasn't sure about a chinese company, but I found two good reviews, one of the 100MHz model, the other of an older 1052E model - they took it apart and found good engineering except for overclocking the ADCs ( http://www.eevblog.com/2009/07/19/eevbl ... ants-down/ ). But then Rigol also builds scopes for Agilent, and looking at the Agilent web site I see that the menus and even some key layouts look quite familiar... (Rigol even has problems with chinese clone makers as my distributor tells me...)

I'll probably put up some pictures in the tools section of my site, comparing my old tube-only tektronix with my new scope (ok, that's kind of unfair, the Tek is about 30 yrs, but I want to enjoy the difference :-)

BTW: The probes that come with are 300MHz bandwidth, but only at x10 attenuation(?). At x1 they are rated 6MHz. Good to remember that.

I'm really looking forward to working with that scope!

André

Edit: added channel info
Edit 2: added link to video where Rigol DS1052E is opened and examined: http://www.eevblog.com/2009/10/12/eevbl ... -teardown/

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Wow, this page assumes 1959.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/tektronix_ ... ope_3.html

I should give it to a museum :-)

André

Keep it, pass it down!


RE: Made by a Chinese company.

Interesting you said that, as I was skimming ebay today for my version of Tektronix scope 2440. Just to compare current prices to what I spent a year ago... I saw someone who rebuilds and calibrates Tektronix 2400 series scopes. He mentioned that the 2440 was the last Tektronix scope made in the USA, and is why he rebuilds and sells them. http://cgi.ebay.com/TEKTRONIX-2440-OSCI ... 500wt_1154

I'll copy and paste here, just in case the add disappears when the sale is over:

Seller is 2465b from ebay:

The Tek 2440 is a digital storage scope from the repairable era of the late 1980s. It cost $10000 new, but now you can get it for a tiny fraction (1/10) still working just fine. It plays a connect the dots game every 2nS for non repetitive signals (that's what 500megasamples/second means), and can display/store repetitive signals of upto 300MHz bandwidth. It no longer has the tv sync option (as shown in photo), but is otherwise in excellent shape, and includes 2 Tek P6109 probes not shown in photo.

Will be shipped freshly calibrated, with instructions, blue filter, cord, 2 probes, and 60 days guaranty, ... READY TO USE !

I choose to work on 2400s because they were the last repairable scopes Tek made (newer TDSs are now made for Tek in China, and unrepairable, though Tek is not bragging about that). 2400s were made in Oregon. 2400s are my specialty, so mine shall arrive working correctly, whether you're buying just 1 or several to outfit an entire lab or classroom. Please keep in mind if buying another's 2440 that chances are, regardless of price, almost certain theirs will have problems, and paying me to fix theirs will not save you $. As reliable as 2400s are, there are many out there with 30 to 100 thousand hours, enough time to have accumulated multiple problems (they accumulate about 1 every 6 thousand hours' use when young, faster as they age). This specimen has 14207 hours. Getting a non-DOA guaranty from another seller misses the point that consuming electricity is not the same as working correctly. Those who say "pulled from a working environment" are hinting it quit (if you miss subtle hints). Those who say "passes self tests" do not understand self test does not check signal path....

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65Org16:https://github.com/ElEctric-EyE/verilog-6502

With the demise of your old scope, what are you going to do about keeping your room heated during the winter?

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

Some pictures and measurements, and a comparison with my old scope...: http://www.6502.org/users/andre/icaphw/ ... index.html

André

Those pictures of the 50MHz measurements: Those are using the 300MHz probe? I would have thought they would have looked more like the 10MHz pics.

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65Org16:https://github.com/ElEctric-EyE/verilog-6502

Yes, that was with the new probe. I was kind of wondering as well. Those measurements are directly on the pin of the 50MHz clock oscillator package. I'll see if I can pass that through the CPLD and measure the 50MHz on a CPLD output, then the measurements are more comparable.

André

Which probes did you receive? What are the old and new probes you're referring too?

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65Org16:https://github.com/ElEctric-EyE/verilog-6502

Hi !

If you looking for a cheap solution , I can recommended a Rigol DS1052E 50MHz Oscilloscope , there is a one thing you have to know about it . for 399 US dollars including a delivery to most of EU country's you getting a real 100mhz DSO !! All you have to do is to follow this link : http://www.eevblog.com/2010/04/18/eevblog-77-rigol-ds1052e-ds1102e-oscilloscope-hack-update/

WOW , go for it !!! 100mhz DSO with price of 50MHZ unit ! I love it

fachat : Dave rulez !

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Funny that you ask just now. About two months ago the old Rigol actually broke. The turn knobs for the time resolution started acting up and then not working, and then the knobs for the voltage. As it seems that multiple controls are affected at the same time I deduced that it's a controller problem or so, so I gave up on it. It's still here and at some point in time I may be looking into it. Or maybe not...

I now have a Rigol DS1104Z, a four channel scope, with 100MHz top frequency. I decided to go four channel, as I had found this to be the most severe restriction on the old scope. Also, this now has the option (built-in, but I haven't tested it) to run as digital signal scope.

I can't really compare the Rigol to other brands regarding usability. It's somewhat intuitive, as that it has the separate controls for voltage, time, and trigger, and several other menus like cursor that are displayed when pressing the respective buttons. But I guess others are rather similar ... form follows function here I guess. Still, I haven't yet explored all the options of the new scope so far though.

André

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Author of the GeckOS multitasking operating system, the usb65 stack, designer of the Micro-PET and many more 6502 content: http://6502.org/users/andre/

The 1054Z can be upgraded to 100 MHz via a code or similar hack; its 50 MHz limit is a software limit, not hardware. I did this with mine and have seen no issues. All the other software can be upgraded with generated codes as well, but I believe that Rigol is now just giving the code for a full software suite license to any new purchaser. This 'scope is certainly one of the cheapest ones out there with this level of capability. And having used a 4-channel 'scope for a while now, I wouldn't buy another 2-channel 'scope.

I have about 16 KB of [url=https://github.com/0cjs/sedoc/blob/master/ee/tools/Rigol-DS1000Z.md
notes on the Rigol 1054Z[/url]. There's definitely some weird and awkward stuff in the UI, but overall it doesn't seem too bad too me. (I have little to compare it with, though, since I've never made serious use of another DSO.) Some of the measurement stuff works very quickly and easily due to the dedicated buttons for this at the left; if you need peak voltage or pulse width or anything like that you can get it with just 1-3 button presses. The most annoying things for me are:

• The horizontal offset movement on screen lags the knob pretty badly, and the knob has acceleration on it, so it can be really annoying and slow to get it to the right spot. (This applies to movement of the zoomed area in zoom mode as well.) It's way to easy to go far, far past where you wanted to move. This is the only thing I've noticed on the 'scope that's terribly slow.
• Constantly having to remember or explicitly look for the selected channel, because there's only one vertical adjustment section: the channel key for an unselected channel will select it; but the channel key for the selected channel will turn it off.
• The parameter adjustment knob is just way too small for something used that much.
• The decoding is difficult to use, and possibly almost useless because it decodes only what's on the screen, not what's in the buffer (i.e., stopping a capture and scrolling horizontally won't show you more decoded stuff). This leaves you to choose between showing just a few decoded bytes, or showing lots of decoded stuff that you can't read because it's too squished together. Possibly going into other decoding displays (the list mode) could help with this, but I've not spend enough time hacking on this to figure out any tricks.

I feel I should mention one particularly good thing (besides the easy and quick measurement options): the list of triggering options is huge, at least in the fully upgraded 'scope. This has been particularly handy for me for video, because what computers spit out is generally not very standard (e.g., the 240p instead of 480i used by most 8-bitters) and so even if your scope does have video triggering (the Rigol does) it my not work in certain circumstances. I've written a bit more about this in the notes I linked above.

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Curt J. Sampson - github.com/0cjs

I too have a DS1054Z with all the hacks. I love it to bits, though I don't know what to expect as a software guy, so that doesn't mean much.



I had real trouble with the (I2C) decode until I turned "Auto Thre." OFF. I guess there's a bug whereby the thresholds for low and high are not detected properly, which understandably causes decode to be unreliable. Decode is very reliable now I've set my thresholds by hand. I think it can decode more than what's on screen, though I have to set my horizontal time base to capture all the points I want on screen and then zoom after capture to see things in detail anyway, but maybe I just don't know how to do that properly yet.

I found the interface a bit confusing initially, and sometimes UI input seems to be at 1 Hz, though the trace is smooth and the "UltraVision" is nice, which makes the trace looks more like it would on an analog oscilloscope.

The display is cluttered too, with no way to free up the left and right hand menu borders and the "Measure All" feature (which very usefully shows lots of details such as Vmin, Vmax, VPP, frequency, duty cycle and more with a single button press) leaves less than half of the display for the traces.

Still love it though.

Yeah, but that does seem kind of expected if you're sticking dozens of measurements on the screen, doesn't it? I'm not sure how you'd work around that, except "don't turn on a zillion measurements" if you don't want it eating most of your screen real estate.

I find that looking at all measurements, though handy on occasion, is not an option I use very often. The 'scope by default shows five measurements at the bottom of the screen and, because of the dedicated buttons on the left, it's very quick to add a new measurement (which pushes the oldest one off the left-hand edge). I add measurements in this way all the time, and the ease and speed of doing this is one of the features that I really like on this 'scope.

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Curt J. Sampson - github.com/0cjs