First Build and ATF22V10

[dourish]

I can also report success using the MiniPro TL866II to program Atmel ATF16V8B GALs for address decoding. I haven't tried the 16V8Cs. Note that you do need the 866II, not the older 866CS.

[Firefox6502]

dourish wrote:

I can also report success using the MiniPro TL866II to program Atmel ATF16V8B GALs for address decoding. I haven't tried the 16V8Cs. Note that you do need the 866II, not the older 866CS.

Thanks for the info. Your the second person that has recommended this programmer. Looking into it...

Also I've looked into the Dataman 40Pro. It looks rock solid and great, but unfortunately costs around AU$1000. *gasp*

I own a Microchip PICkit 3 In-Circuit Debugger Programmer which I've used to program PICs.
Today I came across a statement on a website that it can also program PLDs:
"ICSP
The PICkit 3 is used for hardware based on In-Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP).
ICSP is the ability of microcontrollers (as well as PLD and other embedded devices) to be programmed while installed in a complete system,"
https://www.element14.com/community/roa ... mer-review

Also the User Guide briefly mentions programming serial EEPROMs and to refer to the help files.
So currently trying to find out details if it can actually program PLDs and EEPROMs, and what types.

[Firefox6502]

Finally found the EEPROMs that can be programmed by the PICKit3. These include:
11LC
24LC
25LC
93LCxA,C
93LCxB,C

[Firefox6502]

Below is a list of third-party device programmers for PLDs listed from Atmel-8979-PLD-Programming-ApplicationNote.pdf

Advantech Equipment http://www.aec.com.tw
Advin Systems http://www.advin.com
BPM Microsystems(1) http://www.bpmmicro.com
Data I/O(1) http://www.dataio.com
Dataman http://www.dataman.com
EE Tools http://www.eetools.com
ELNEC http://www.elnec.com
HI-LO Systems(1) http://www.hilosystems.com
Kanda(1) http://www.kanda.com
Leap Electronic http://www.leap.com.tw
Logical Devices(1) http://www.logicaldevices.com
Minato http://www.minato.co.jp
Needham’s Electronics(1) http://www.needhams.com
Phyton http://www.phyton.com
System General(1) http://www.sg.com.tw
Tribal Microsystems(1) http://www.tribalmicro.com
Xeltek http://www.xeltek.com

Note: 1. The PLD programming supports from this vendor had been qualified by the Atmel PLD Applications group.


I plan to use a ATF22V10C.
Atmel recommend the commercial grade programmers, but as a hobbyist I don't want to spend $thousands!

So going through the list of programmers, the cheapest in the universal programmers range would be:

Wellon V299 - US$170.50 / AU$218
But given the following product note, I best not buy this:
"Some 22V10 PLDs draw too much current for standard programmer and a resistor change will be necessary. This requires two SMD resistors to be changed- see product support link below. Consider VP-598 instead as it has higher programming current."

Wellon V598 - US$296.50 / AU$380

Xeltek SuperPro 610P - US$495
Looks good, a US company.


So I'm thinking of buying a Wellon V598. Seems alot of money for just a programmer, but if I use it often and (if) it lasts many years, then this would be a worthwhile investment.

[Druzyek]

If you need to program CPLDs and GALs, it would be cheaper to get the Atmel CPLD programmer for about $60 and a separate programmer like a TL866II+ for GALS and EEPROMs also for about $60.

[Firefox6502]

Druzyek wrote:

If you need to program CPLDs and GALs, it would be cheaper to get the Atmel CPLD programmer for about $60 and a separate programmer like a TL866II+ for GALS and EEPROMs also for about $60.

Thanks Druzyek! I've decided to use an ATF16V8C for the address decoding, and buy a TL866II Plus.
Somewhere along the way I lost sight of the forest from the trees and wanted to only get an ATF22V10C but the high priced programmers where giving me alot to contemplate on, questions such as... Should I proceed with such costs? How can programmers be so expensive for hobbyists? Thanks to your post and others posts, the answer is: If you want to use an ATF22V10C then you have to pay alot for a programmer, rather use another glue logic chip.

Also, for my second SBC build, I plan to use a CPLD, esp given the low cost of the ATMEL CPLD programmer. I looked up all the components for my SBC and I believe all are available in PLCC package format, i.e. PLCC-28, PLCC-44... This will be a side project, i.e. build a small form factor SBC, but I have alot of reading to do. Primarily how do I build an SBC using PLCC chips during the development phase? There are PLCC sockets for breadboards, but is this a viable option or are there a more standard approaches when using SMB components?

[ThePhysicist]

just as info - I program my 22V10 chips all the time with an TL866II Plus

[greghol]

Firefox6502 wrote:

Druzyek wrote:

Also, for my second SBC build, I plan to use a CPLD, esp given the low cost of the ATMEL CPLD programmer. I looked up all the components for my SBC and I believe all are available in PLCC package format, i.e. PLCC-28, PLCC-44... This will be a side project, i.e. build a small form factor SBC, but I have alot of reading to do. Primarily how do I build an SBC using PLCC chips during the development phase? There are PLCC sockets for breadboards, but is this a viable option or are there a more standard approaches when using SMB components?

Either solder the PLCC part to the PCB, 1) directly 2) via SMT PLCC socket or 3) Use TH PLCC socket. The part doesn't really need to come back off the board unless it goes bad. They are programmed via JTAG. For a generic PLCC socket adapter for a protoboard strip just add the JTAG interface 5 wires and a couple resistors with the connector. Maybe I'm not understanding.

Greg

[Firefox6502]

ThePhysicist wrote:

just as info - I program my 22V10 chips all the time with an TL866II Plus

Thanks! I'm planning on buying the TL866II Plus this week.

Is that the Lattice GAL22V10 chip you are referring to? If so, from what I've read these are no longer made, only NOS is available (which I'm sure you know this already). But good to know they can be programmed by this programmer.

[Druzyek]

If in doubt, you can see the list of chips the TL866ii+ can program.

[Firefox6502]

Druzyek wrote:

If in doubt, you can see the list of chips the TL866ii+ can program.

Bro thanks heaps! According to this very up to date list (Software Version: V10.75 Date: 1.28th.2021), a whole bunch of Atmel ATF22V10C chips are programmable. That settles it... I'm buying this programmer today and this PLD!
And to play it safe, I will also buy some ATF22V10B and ATF16V8C chips. Just in case.

[ThePhysicist]

these are the ones I'm using https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/mi ... cycode=USD

[GARTHWILSON]

Druzyek wrote:

Quote:

I'd stick with the 22V10. You gain more I/O and logic resources with virtually no penalty.

One nice thing about the 16V8 is that it's only 0.3 inches wide, so takes up less than half the space on the board of a 22V10. EDIT: 22V10 is also only 0.3 inches wide.

and

ThePhysicist wrote:

these are the ones I'm using https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/mi ... cycode=USD

It's interesting that Mouser's picture of the DIP is of a .600"-wide DIP, but the data sheet says it's .300" wide. If the .600"-wide DIPs (processor, VIA, etc.) are in sockets, there's room underneath for the .300"-wide DIPs.

[Firefox6502]

ThePhysicist wrote:

these are the ones I'm using https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/mi ... cycode=USD

Thanks, that's the one I was planning on buying (7.5 ns)!

[ThePhysicist]

Those are 0.3"