Project: Digital Fuel Injector Pulse Width Analyzer

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:23 pm

Found a 320x240 LCD display made by New Haven that has a familiar 6500 style data bus interface for $130.
Still looking for others...

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.asp ... 40WG-BOSFK

OOOH. TFT LCD color, same 8 bit interface, 65K colors for around same price! And you can order direct from them online.

http://www.newhavendisplay.com/index.ph ... ts_id=1900

GARTHWILSON · Post by **GARTHWILSON** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:52 pm

Make sure you check the timing charts before buying. These things usually can't be connected directly to the bus at the speeds you want to operate. When they say "6800" or "6500" bus, they still think we're still back in the 1MHz age.

GARTHWILSON · Post by **GARTHWILSON** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:30 pm

Quote:

I've seen the 28-pin green Textool and Textool(like) ZIF sockets on Mouser for $15 each. Now I would have thought this was THE most expensive until I saw some ARIES ZIF sockets. Even more expensive. About 2x the cost at $30 each, but it is a non-stocked item at Mouser.

Wow that's a lot!! I've never paid anywhere near that much, but maybe we're losing the economy of scale with less thru-hole prototyping and hobbyist construction now than there was years ago.

Quote:

I feel pretty confident about the memory and adressing logic and timing.

Have you checked the bus loading? I haven't looked up the data on the 74F stuff, but it looks to me like you have an awfully heavy bus load.

Quote:

I need a very simple video interface, old school 6545 video IC's I understand. SPI is totally foreign to me, but it seems like it's the norm for displays nowadays. Should I commit to learning the SPI interface? Would it be fast enough to display 8-bit data acquired <5MHz?

The 6545 was never made in the bus speeds you want, so you wouldn't be able to interface one directly unless you slowed the clock way down every time you wanted to address the 6545. SPI can commonly transfer up to around 50 megabits per second in each direction, both directions at once, although we will have to wait for Daryl's 65SPI chip for speed anywhere near that. [Edit: It's available at http://sbc.rictor.org/65spi.html.] Otherwise you'll have to bit-banging through a VIA, or, maybe use a parallel slave port on a microcontroller that also has an SPI port. SPI is quite simple, and, since it's serial, will be a lot less work to wire up than a parallel port. And by the way, bit-banging is much, much easier and faster to do on SPI than it is on RS-232, since RS-232 is asynchronous and therefore has stringent timing requirements. Don't confuse them just because they're both called "serial." There's a big difference. SPI has three bussed signal lines (four if you count an interrupt line): the clock line (always controlled by the master), MOSI (Master-Out/Slave-in), and MISO (Master-in/Slave-out), and then each slave has its own select line. The select line is the only one that's not bussed. Inactive SPI outputs are high-impedance. Since SPI doesn't have any bi-directional lines, level-translation (like 5V to 3V and vice-versa) is easy. The easiest way to get familiar with SPI might be to choose some kind of simple SPI part like a port expander (GPIO) or digital pot, and look at the data sheet and do a small project to make it work.

The 65SIB (serial interface bus) we've been talking about in other topics is just a way to connect a string of up to seven external SPI (and similar) devices in kind of a daisy chain, with a single pin-header ribbon connector on the controller and two on each device. It's primarily a definition of the connector to make peripheral designs and hardware somewhat portable between forum members. The main limitation to speed will usually be the 6502/816 master, and otherwise the individual devices and line length. The order of the wires in the connector ribbon is specifically arranged for good transmission over the ribbon cable. (Every signal line is next to a ground or virtual ground line.) 65SIB carries power too, so projects that don't use a ton of current won't need their own source of power (although they will need an onboard regulator). Interrupts are supported. 65SIB is not really 65-family-specific, just a 6502.org project. It was intentionally designed so a single port on the master could simultaneously accommodate a wide range of serial ICs from SPI to Microwire to 74HCxxx dumb shift registers for I/O, but also allow autoconfiguration of custom intelligent devices without putting the intelligence requirement on all devices. Non-intelligent ones simply won't respond to or be affected by autoconfiguration-type operations. The seven-device limitation can be exceeded by adding intelligent hubs. 65SIB is very simple to get basic operation from, but also allows much more sophisticated operations for those who want to delve into it that far. I need to write up a spec. sheet for the basics to post on this site, and kc5tja will be developing the autoconfiguration protocol when he has hardware to debug it. (That's my understanding anyway.) At this point the only thing here to refer to is the forum topic where we developed it, which is a lot to read through even if you only read the last half. I was also thinking about making some PC boards available to speed up the construction at the connectors and make them more suitable for fast slew rates.

As for video, There are some graphics LCDs with SPI, and you might even find ones with built-in controllers to take certain commands to for example draw vectors, arcs, etc. without your main processor having to figure out which dots to turn on. Most intelligent modules can do the text (so you just tell it where to start and what to write and it figures out the rest), but the graphics commands would be beyond that.

Other popular, inexpensive synchronous serial interfaces: (Note: even though one company or another started a particular interface, there are many companies that make devices for it. For example, SPI is Motorola's baby, but lots of companies make SPI parts.)
Microwire is National Semiconductor's baby and is very similar to SPI.
I²C is Philips' baby. It uses only two signal lines, one for clock and one for data. Both are bi-directional, so you can even have more than one master, and they can arbitrate who gets control of the bus. Instead of having an individual select line for each device, every transaction starts with an address, and all devices listen for their address and respond only if it is called. Having only two wires makes for even a lot less wiring work than SPI, but its passive pull-up requirement on bi-directional lines and its open-drain outputs put quite a lid on the speed compared to SPI. (400kbits/second is a common limit.) There are two-wire interfaces that are not particularly called I²C but are still the same thing.
1-Wire is Dallas' baby and is even slower than I²C (but taking it too far, if you ask me). It's a little more complex since the one wire handles bidirectional clock and data, telling the difference through timing requirements, so I think you have to really hate wires to drop from I²C or other two-wire interface (TWI) down to 1-Wire! It is more appropriate for slow things like a temperature sensor. Sometimes power is on the one wire too.
SMBus is basically I²C with time-out limits on devices that can tell the controller to wait because they're not ready to take more data yet. (Many I²C devices don't support that clock-stretching "wait" feature anyway, so although I've never used SMBus, I expect that for a lot of applications there would be no difference between SMBus and I²C.)
There are good Wikipedia write-ups on these.

Nightmaretony · Post by **Nightmaretony** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:03 pm

For video, a CPLD with RAM base is a good way to go.

Tony, da busy one

GARTHWILSON · Post by **GARTHWILSON** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:02 pm

Quote:

For video, a CPLD with RAM base is a good way to go.

Daryl, are you making yours available for sale?

8BIT · Post by **8BIT** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:48 am

My 65SPI code is complete and posted on my website. I can program the CPLD's for anyone interested. If there is enough interest, I can put together a bulk purchase for the chips and send them out pre-programmed.

Daryl

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:21 am

Are you guys talking about an interface to a TFT/LCD? An interface between a 6502 (i.e. 8 bit parallel data) and straight 18bit RGB? That's what I would really like to see... I would be looking at a 640x480 display if this is so.

The data sheet on my earlier post is confusing me. I see data but no address lines. How are the registers accessed?

Here's their link again:

http://www.newhavendisplay.com/specs/NH ... _8-bit.pdf

8BIT · Post by **8BIT** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:55 am

The RS pin selects data or command register access. See section 7,8, & 9 of the datasheet. THere is a multi-byte sequence for addressing data and command registers.

Daryl

8BIT · Post by **8BIT** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:06 am

GARTHWILSON wrote:

Quote:

For video, a CPLD with RAM base is a good way to go.

Daryl, are you making yours available for sale?

My CPLD video system was designed to be graphical vs. text based and it requires 64000 bytes for the 320x200 pixel display.

It has built-in decoding for a 65816 processor's upper address bus, up to 512k, which allows the programs to reside in the first 64k block, and graphics above.

I had thought about modifying it to drive an LCD directly, vs. providing composite video, but I just don't have enough time to start it.

Daryl

GARTHWILSON · Post by **GARTHWILSON** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:13 am

ElEctric_EyE, I think you'll be interested in the video discussion at viewtopic.php?t=28 , especially the last part starting after the middle of page 8.

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:43 pm

I read all of it thanks for digging that up for me. Noone seemed to reply to your investigation which is pretty much where I am starting at. I am only interested in a TFT display that has a built in 8 bit controller. Now the display I am interested in has a controller with part #FSA506. If I could find the datasheet for it I am sure I could understand how to communicate with it. But looking at other forums people are having similar problems, as noone can find out where the datasheet is. Someone said it is made by Microchip. So I am still looking...

Came across another company called ampdisplay making the identical product using the same controller. Their datasheet explains abit more...

http://www.ampdisplay.com/pdf/tft/ADI_5 ... 20ver,.pdf

Ah sweet, here is the controller:

http://www.ampdisplay.com/pdf/tft/ADI_F ... _Board.pdf

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:20 am

Quote:

Have you checked the bus loading? I haven't looked up the data on the 74F stuff, but it looks to me like you have an awfully heavy bus load.

You have a point there and it is an issue I will have to deal with one way or another. Each counter section will have 4 IC's loading the data bus down. With 8 sections that's 32 IC's. Right now I will use the 'F' series to see how fast I can push the 65C02 only because I am working on the prototype which is 1 CPU controlling 1 counter section....

It may develop into a multiprocessor system, where 1 CPU will have full control over each 16 bit counter section and I won't have to worry about that aspect. It may be overkill, but I don't know yet... I still have yet to do some wirewrapping. Also from initial calculations, for a pulse width of 100ms and 16-bit resolution, gets me into a clock frequency of close to 2MHz, well in the range of HC/T...

Which brings me to something else I have been thinking about. The 65C02 has a SOB (Set Overflow Bit) pin for setting a status register bit which I think would be useful when connected to the /TC (Terminal Count). If I could have a CPU controlled oscillator, I could max the resolution by lowering the frequency just abit each time /TC was triggered. But I need a high resolution frequency divider. Any suggestions?

As of now I have all my IC's, vectorboard, EEPROM Programmer. 500ft spool of 30AWG wire, and wire wrap sockets are due here on 4/3. A wire strip tool, called the "stripmaster" for $30 from mytoolstore.com is due here on 4/7. I hope this tool is worth it. I've seen it being sold for over $100 on many sites. One other site was selling it for $40.

http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide11-24.html

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/s ... xgodtnpnuw

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:24 pm

Forget the divider, I am thinking of going with a 74s124 VCO, and an 8 bit D/A to control the Injector counter frequency. Also a set voltage will be used for the O2in signal for the 65c02 on the other 1/2 of the 74s124.
Here's a block diagram and physical layout (-therelay and display). Expect this diagram to change... I changed it 4 times already.

6502.org wrote:

Image no longer available: http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/ultimateroadwarrior/BlockDiagram.jpg

6502.org wrote:

Image no longer available: http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/ultimateroadwarrior/Final.jpg

GARTHWILSON · Post by **GARTHWILSON** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:42 am

Quote:

I've seen the 28-pin green Textool and Textool(like) ZIF sockets on Mouser for $15 each. Now I would have thought this was THE most expensive until I saw some ARIES ZIF sockets. Even more expensive. About 2x the cost at $30 each, but it is a non-stocked item at Mouser.

Wow that's a lot!! I've never paid anywhere near that much, but maybe we're losing the economy of scale with less thru-hole prototyping and hobbyist construction now than there was years ago.

As I was looking for something else in the Jameco catalog, I ran across the Aries ZIF sockets there, $8.95 US for a 28-pin, Jameco cat. no. 104003.

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Forget the divider, I am thinking of going with a 74s124 VCO, and an 8 bit D/A to control the Injector counter frequency.

Have you looked into the signal generator ICs? You might try Micro Linear, Cybernetic Micro Systems, Maxim, Analog Devices, Burr-Brown, etc.. These ICs use a sine wave table in ROM, and use a counter with a lot more bits than you would need to hit every step value in the wave. You tell it how much to add to the counter with every clock pulse. The maximum you could add without aliasing would be just under half the couter's maximum value. Tiny increments may take a lot of clock pulses before you go to the next step in the sine wave table. The output frequency is exactly proportional to the digital step value given, times the input clock frequency. It will give you better resolution and accuracy than using a D/A and a VCO.

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:16 am

...I deleted what I wrote here last night, I was up too late and I was a ramblin'... So I will just post a pic of my new baby I got from ebay. The manual was written in '91 so I am assuming the unit is 18 years old as well. It was calibrated in '08, military surplus, and seems to be in excellent condition.

6502.org wrote:

Image no longer available: http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/ultimateroadwarrior/DSCF0003.jpg

Project: Digital Fuel Injector Pulse Width Analyzer

Programmable frequency generator