Small DIP PLDs

BillO · Post by **BillO** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:35 pm

There seem to be a dearth of options for replacing PALs and GALs. I know they are ancient technology, but they were cool new stuff the last time I used them. Anyone know what is available in small DIP packaged PLDs these days?

8BIT · Post by **8BIT** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:10 pm

I like the Lattice GAL16V8D (20 pin DIP) and GAL22V10D (24 pin DIP).

There are some inexpensive (E)EPROM programmers that will also program these chips on EBay. Search "Genius G540". There is least 1 other but its model name escapes me.

Also, even though its quirky, Atmel's WinCUPL is free and does create the needed JED files for these devices.

You can still get them from various distributors. Enter "GAL16V8D" on www.findchips.com to find them. Price is $2 to $10.

Daryl

ElEctric_EyE · Post by **ElEctric_EyE** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:46 pm

BillO wrote:

...Anyone know what is available in small DIP packaged PLDs these days?

I'm not aware of any DIP PLD's. I have experience with Xilinx, so can only speak for their parts. The smallest one is a 44-pin VQFP, XC9536. Works at 3.3V and 5V, VCC up to 7V actually... You can buy a 44 pin QFP to DIP adapter, although they are expensive @$33US each.

Then you will need Xilinx software to use it. Digilent used to sell CPLD kits, but not anymore I think... Maybe Ebay?

EDIT: I meant XC9536 not XC9532.

BillO · Post by **BillO** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:09 am

I'll have to check the software to see if the GAL16V8D will suit my needs. I can get 10 of them for $12 with the shipping.

Anything from Xilinx would be extreme overkill. I just want to replace the logic in 5 gate chips.

BillO · Post by **BillO** » Fri May 13, 2011 1:40 am

Wow! 50ma power consumption. Bit of a power hog. They must get quite warm.

BillO · Post by **BillO** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:01 am

Daryl,

The Atmel software only lists their own devices. Will the output still program a Lattice device?

8BIT · Post by **8BIT** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:02 am

Yes, I used it on the DEC-1 and for the Terminal daughter board on my SBC-4 and the Lattice part works perfectly.

The nice thing about those chips are that the data sheets actually give the entire fuse-bit map, although its a bit obscure. So you can actually look at the resulting binary output file and verify the bits are correct. I did this the first time I used WinCUPL just to be sure it would work.

As a side note. The programmers I mentioned seem to have a problem with the Atmel GAL's. I bought several (16V8C, 16V8D, 22V10) and could not program any of them with my programmer. I'm not sure why, however. The Atmel datasheets do not help at all, as they do not go into detail on the programming protocol required.

If anyone can shed some light, it would help as the Lattice chips are starting to disappear while the Atmel parts are still widely available.

Daryl

BitWise · Post by **BitWise** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:05 am

8BIT wrote:

I bought several (16V8C, 16V8D, 22V10) and could not program any of them with my programmer. I'm not sure why, however. The Atmel datasheets do not help at all, as they do not go into detail on the programming protocol required.

My programmer is quite the opposite. It only likes Atmel flavoured chips and nothing else.

nichtsnutz · Post by **nichtsnutz** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:25 am

Hello,

this german distributor has replacements,maybe this is something you are searching for.I have one and it is ok.

http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog ... ucts_id=78

Greetings,
Vassilis

8BIT · Post by **8BIT** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:24 pm

BitWise wrote:

My programmer is quite the opposite. It only likes Atmel flavoured chips and nothing else.

What programmer do you use?

BitWise · Post by **BitWise** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:52 pm

8BIT wrote:

BitWise wrote:

My programmer is quite the opposite. It only likes Atmel flavoured chips and nothing else.

What programmer do you use?

It was part of an educational kit from K&A.

http://www.kanda.com/products/Kanda/ATM014.html

Looks like they have replaced it with a generic programmer now.

BillO · Post by **BillO** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:25 pm

You're right, that WinCUPL software is quirky. Not to mention almost completely undocumented. The user manual may as well be talking about the weather in Wyoming.

Anyway, got it up and running and was able to replace 7 TTL chips with one GAL20V8. Virtually anyway. The G540 is on order as are some NOS 16V8, 20V8 and 22V10 GALs manufactured by Lattice.

digidice · Post by **digidice** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:47 am

I have been getting a good supply of GAL devices 22v10 (and 16v8) types from Jameco.com. They seem to carry some handy parts for the hobbyist.

As far as the atmel wincupl it is "quirky" has anyone tried the software from logical devices? I have been considering purchase of it.

BitWise · Post by **BitWise** » Sat May 14, 2011 6:51 pm

BillO wrote:

You're right, that WinCUPL software is quirky.

Yep, always save everything before compiling or simulating. Learnt that that hard way on a couple of occasions.

bgaarsoe · Post by **bgaarsoe** » Thu May 26, 2011 3:43 pm

digidice wrote:

I have been getting a good supply of GAL devices 22v10 (and 16v8) types from Jameco.com. They seem to carry some handy parts for the hobbyist.

As far as the atmel wincupl it is "quirky" has anyone tried the software from logical devices? I have been considering purchase of it.

The Logical Devices WinCUPL product, which I happen to own, was actually abandoned by Logical Devices quiet awhile back, and the code for this product was sold to Atmel. This is actually where Atmel's WinCUPL came from.

The two products are virtually identical in terms of core functionality and behviour, but Atmel stripped out support for all devices except their basic PAL/GAL chips.

I haven't looked at Atmel's documentation for WinCUPL, but since I own the original Logical Devices product, I also have the original documentation, which is actually pretty decent, so if you have any questions regarding how to use WinCUPL, please send me a PM, and I will see if I can provide the information you need.

-John

Small DIP PLDs

Small DIP PLDs

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