Introducing: "Steckschwein"

[ArnoldLayne]

Alrighty,

after getting the ATF1508-toolchain to work the next step was to make something to experiment/test the actual Steckschwein-VHDL on an ATF1508.. which happens to be a breadboard with what will evolve into the upcoming Steckschwein "core".

https://www.steckschwein.de/post/2025/0 ... prototype/

Getting back to breadboarding after 10ish years is fun! Especially with some new toys and lots of lessons learned along the way.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

ArnoldLayne wrote:

Alrighty,

after getting the ATF1508-toolchain to work the next step was to make something to experiment/test the actual Steckschwein-VHDL on an ATF1508.. which happens to be a breadboard with what will evolve into the upcoming Steckschwein "core".

https://www.steckschwein.de/post/2025/0 ... -prototype

Hmm...got an interesting error when I tried to visit that page.

Quote:

Misdirected Request (Error 421)!

Sorry, but this page couldn't be served:

"domain not specified in .domains file"

Quote:

Getting back to breadboarding after 10ish years is fun!  Especially with some new toys and lots of lessons learned along the way.

Let’s hope your breadboard doesn’t exhibit piggish (Schwein-ish?) characteristics.  It’s hard enough to get this stuff to work right without adding flaky connections to the mix. 

[ArnoldLayne]

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Hmm...got an interesting error when I tried to visit that page.

Quote:

Misdirected Request (Error 421)!

Sorry, but this page couldn't be served:

"domain not specified in .domains file"

Still? Works fine from my end. I suspect a caching issue on codeberg's side.

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Let’s hope your breadboard doesn’t exhibit piggish (Schwein-ish?) characteristics.  It’s hard enough to get this stuff to work right without adding flaky connections to the mix. 

It's the same model as the breadboard I used to make the first design, which ran with a clock speed up to 4 MHz. And I had my share of flaky connections. Right up to spanking new breadboard wires that were not conducting. You can't even rely on those. Happy Troubleshooting. Regardless, I am having fun right now.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

ArnoldLayne wrote:

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Hmm...got an interesting error when I tried to visit that page.

Quote:

Misdirected Request (Error 421)!

Sorry, but this page couldn't be served:

"domain not specified in .domains file"

Still? Works fine from my end. I suspect a caching issue on codeberg's side.

Now the site is visible.

Quote:

Quote:

Let’s hope your breadboard doesn’t exhibit piggish (Schwein-ish?) characteristics.  It’s hard enough to get this stuff to work right without adding flaky connections to the mix. 

It's the same model as the breadboard I used to make the first design, which ran with a clock speed up to 4 MHz. And I had my share of flaky connections. Right up to spanking new breadboard wires that were not conducting. You can't even rely on those. Happy Troubleshooting. Regardless, I am having fun right now.

Does anyone make a trustworthy breadboard anymore?

BTW, in reading the new site page, I didn’t see mention of which MPU the new-and-improved Steckschwein will be using.

[GARTHWILSON]

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Does anyone make a trustworthy breadboard anymore?

I think BusBoard Prototype Systems (BPS) makes good ones, although so far I've only bought their solder-type, not solderless ones.  See http://www.busboard.com/   In solderless ones, I've only used the American-made ones (I don't remember the manufacturer) with a lifetime warranty, ones I bought decades ago and have used over and over, and never had any problem with them.  I use them for analog stuff though, not making computers with fast edge rates.

[ArnoldLayne]

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Does anyone make a trustworthy breadboard anymore?

German distributor Reichelt has this one from Digilent:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/shop/pro ... cts-322830

80€ for a breadboard? It better be trustworthy...

I still went with a 20€ one.

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

BTW, in reading the new site page, I didn’t see mention of which MPU the new-and-improved Steckschwein will be using.

In terms of MPU, there isn't much to be improved - we stick with the 65C02.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

ArnoldLayne wrote:

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Does anyone make a trustworthy breadboard anymore?

German distributor Reichelt has this one from Digilent:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/shop/pro ... cts-322830

80€ for a breadboard? It better be trustworthy...

Not sure what the current exchange rate between US dollars and euros is, but 80€ for something that costs $49 at a US distributor seems like a lot of markup.  Of course, VAT is a significant chunk of that.

Quote:

Quote:

BTW, in reading the new site page, I didn’t see mention of which MPU the new-and-improved Steckschwein will be using.

In terms of MPU, there isn't much to be improved - we stick with the 65C02.

Hmm...a bit surprised you aren’t going with the 65C816.  There’s really no downside to using it when a CPLD is involved, as it can easily handle the bank bits demuxing.  Working with large amounts of RAM becomes easy...and from a data perspective, it’s all linear address space.

[barnacle]

Vat is 21% in Germany. Which leaves around 64€ as the 'base' price. Which, given that the Euro is around $1.16 at the moment, still suggests a certain amount of inflation.

Neil

[ArnoldLayne]

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Hmm...a bit surprised you aren’t going with the 65C816.  There’s really no downside to using it when a CPLD is involved, as it can easily handle the bank bits demuxing.  Working with large amounts of RAM becomes easy...and from a data perspective, it’s all linear address space.

First, the Steckschwein is intended to be an 8bit 65C02 computer, and I feel using an '816 will blur that initial idea somewhat. Also, to be honest, the '816 does not really click with me as it is quite a different beast. Maybe in a couple of years when the 65C02 starts to bore me.

[plasmo]

I still find soldered prototype board most satisfying. It is cheap, compact, reliable and rugged. I don’t ever worried about unreliable connections or connections come loose. It took twice longer to do, but I enjoyed the process and savoring the time wiring up while thinking about a design. This is my most recent wired prototype done last week.
Bill

[BigDumbDinosaur]

ArnoldLayne wrote:

Also...the '816...is quite a different beast.

Yes it is, even in emulation mode—which isn’t quite the same as a real 65C02.

When I first started with the 65C816, I was using C02-style programming methods—old habits die hard, but soon realized I was felling trees with a stone axe, despite having a chain saw at my disposal.  That epiphany started me thinking in terms of the capabilities not present in the C02, and before long, my 65C816 code started getting smaller and faster.

[ArnoldLayne]

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

ArnoldLayne wrote:

Also...the '816...is quite a different beast.

Yes it is, even in emulation mode—which isn’t quite the same as a real 65C02.

When I first started with the 65C816, I was using C02-style programming methods—old habits die hard, but soon realized I was felling trees with a stone axe, despite having a chain saw at my disposal.  That epiphany started me thinking in terms of the capabilities not present in the C02, and before long, my 65C816 code started getting smaller and faster.

Yep, I am very much used to 8bit 02 style programming since my C64 days. I guess what they say about old dogs is true.
I'll save that epiphany up for later when it's time for a 16bit Steckschwein.