Where have I been?

sburrow · Post by **sburrow** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:46 am

It's been a while since I posted on the forum. Let me tell you why!

After making the '816 computer (here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7939), and still not able to program in C, I decided it was time to switch gears. Although I do enjoy 6502 assembly, I really *really* wanted to just program in C again. So I made a PIC-only computer instead!

https://github.com/stevenchadburrow/AcolyteHandPICd

I know that it's not 6502 related, so I won't go into details here. If you are interested you can see my github page or you can always PM me.

None of this would have been possible without the help that y'all gave me for many years now. I have learned SO MUCH and am very thankful for all of your help and support along the way.

Thank you everyone!

Chad

drogon · Post by **drogon** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 2:56 pm

Looks good. Thanks for the update.

Always better to have something you're happy to use and achieve than to struggle on against the tools, environment, etc. I think.

I have always felt C on the '816 is an issue - dealing with data structures, short/near/far/long whatever pointers and so on. Having to think about the things I let compilers and operating systems deal with 4 decades ago.... It's highly unlikely I'll ever do another '816 project myself now.

Hope you have lots of fun with it!

Cheers,

-Gordon

barrym95838 · Post by **barrym95838** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:46 pm

drogon wrote:

... Having to think about the things I let compilers and operating systems deal with 4 decades ago.... It's highly unlikely I'll ever do another '816 project myself now.

There are those among us who thrive on the minutiae, and happily juggle their dangerously hot coffees while driving their manual transmission cars to work every day ... that being said, I'm "just not that into" the 16-bit "native" properties of the '816, so I empathize with your position.

Oh, and welcome back, Chad! Thanks for checking in, at least.

BigDumbDinosaur · Post by **BigDumbDinosaur** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:48 pm

barrym95838 wrote:

There are those among us who thrive on the minutiae, and happily juggle their dangerously hot coffees while driving their manual transmission cars to work every day ...

In most major cities, stick shift cars are less likely to be carjacked, mainly because the would-be thieves don’t know what that extra pedal is for.

BigDumbDinosaur · Post by **BigDumbDinosaur** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:51 pm

sburrow wrote:

After making the '816 computer (here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7939), and still not able to program in C, I decided it was time to switch gears. Although I do enjoy 6502 assembly, I really *really* wanted to just program in C again. So I made a PIC-only computer instead!

Oh dear!!! How could anyone descend to the level of a PIC?

barnacle · Post by **barnacle** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:19 pm

Please tell me it wasn't a PIC-14? To voluntarily choose that would surely be the height of self-abnegation...

(In a previous job I spent five years writing PIC-14 assembly, with added constraints of which pins might be used for which functions, based on practical experience of how they failed once the operating temperature got above 150C (302F). Let's just say that they have certain quirks which can make them, um, difficult.)

Neil

GARTHWILSON · Post by **GARTHWILSON** » Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:53 pm

barnacle wrote:

Please tell me it wasn't a PIC-14? To voluntarily choose that would surely be the height of self-abnegation...

I've never heard of PIC14. Do you mean PIC16, which has 14-bit program words? I've designed PIC12's into a few products too, PIC12 basically being 8-pin PIC16's. I think the PIC10's are 6-pin PIC16's; but I'd have to check again, as I've never used them. But to pull this topic back to the required 65xx content, I use macros to implement 6502-style instructions to hide some the mickeymousities of PIC16. They take some of the pain out of PIC programming.

DavidL · Post by **DavidL** » Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:53 am

I'm just shocked that he went with a PIC18. A '24 is *much* less insane (at the assembly) level the the PIC18.

barnacle · Post by **barnacle** » Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:31 am

oops, yes: pic16 with 14-bit words. Obviously I've tried to forget

Neil

AndrewP · Post by **AndrewP** » Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:04 pm

If it will entice you back to 65816 land; I'm still working on a C++ like* compiler for the '816.

Should you hold your breathe whilst waiting? Nope, I'm a couple of years into the project and can still see many years of work ahead. Will it ever be finished? Probably. I'm too far down the '816 hardware path to back out now. And, like you, I program much faster in C/C++ than in native assembly.

* Most of C++98 with bits of C++11 that I use thrown in.

BigDumbDinosaur · Post by **BigDumbDinosaur** » Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:59 pm

AndrewP wrote:

And, like you, I program much faster in C/C++ than in native assembly.

Macros, my friend. Macros!

AndrewP · Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:16 pm

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:

Macros, my friend. Macros!

I really should get better at macros - in any architecture's assemblers. I mostly just use them for very basic stuff like changing memory widths etc...

The other reason I need a C++ compiler is I have *decades* of highly optimised C++ code that would make a brilliant foundation for building, well, anything on the '816 really. And none of it has dependencies on external libraries*. It's everything from basic stuff like collections to memory management, image manipulation, file systems and text parsing. It's just not worth rewriting it all.

* Not strictly true but it's nothing I would need. I.e. input device access from DirectInput or RawInput etc..

sburrow · Post by **sburrow** » Wed May 22, 2024 5:33 pm

An update on where I've continued to be:

I am currently working with the PIC24, github link here: https://github.com/stevenchadburrow/AcolyteHandPICd24

I gotta say that I started on the PIC's to easily use C for everything, but I have found myself mostly using Assembly again! Although PIC assembly is definitely different from 6502 assembly (I think it's similar to Z80 assembly? Not sure), I really think that my time learning 6502 assembly paid off BIGTIME. Using only a handful of registers, using tighter instructions, having to limit myself, and also being able to do some fancy tricks along the way: All of that has helped me grasp these more complex concepts and instructions much quicker.

And of course the hardware side of things I learned here has propelled me into a whole new realm of possibilities. All of this started here, at 6502.org, and I thank all of you for helping and guiding me along the way. I literally couldn't have done any of this without you.

Although I'm not as active here, I do still stop in to check on things occasionally. PM me if you want to hear more about what I'm doing. Thank you everyone, once again

Chad

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