Hi all,
I am new to the 6502 programming. I am trying to program games like poker and others. However I am facing a lot of difficulties in the testing of the program since what I have is a real poker machine with its board and an emulator connected to it and to the computer.
I have seen with other programmers a software that emulates the whole game board including the graphics. With this, whenever the program itself is changed, it can be tested immediately on the PC. Of course I will still need to test on the real machine but only when I have major changes done. I tried to ask about this software but I didnt receive an answer.
I would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me how I can get such a program, even if I have to buy it, because it would make my work much easier.
Thank you
Bob
6502 game board emulator
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GARTHWILSON
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The one you mention first that's connected to both the game board and a PC is the real emulator. Since it plugs into the board, it can also be used to troubleshoot hardware. The software-only one you mention second is a simulator, not an emulator. When you saw someone using simulator software, was it for simulating a 6502? The simulators I've seen are for particular microcontrollers or microprocessors, but are not able to simulate all the hardware I/O on a board with other ICs on it.
It is possible to set up your development system to have good development speed without any of these tools. Emulators especially are normally many thousands of dollars. Simulators, just being software, are sometimes free. I used Microchip's simulator a few times when I was new at using their PIC microcontrollers, but don't anymore because it's virtually worthless-- too cryptic, progress is too slow, etc.. It was marginally useful only when I didn't really know the instruction set yet.
Especially if you use Forth on the 6502, you can get instant turnaround between writing a piece of code on the PC and trying it on your board-- without taking time to re-assemble or transfer the whole image again over RS-232 or whatever. I realize however that getting that going too when you're not very experienced at the 6502 or Forth either is a bit unrealistic.
You'll probably do best to start small and write little building-block routines. Use those as components for bigger building blocks. These first two levels will definitely include some debugging routines which can be called at various points in your code where there seems to be trouble. They might be used to merely tell you that you got to a certain point in the program, or snoop around in your variables, edit various addresses before continuing on, etc.. It is a common pitfall for beginners to lack modularity and debugging utilities in their programming. Then they want to substitute expensive development tools for a clear understanding of the development process. I'm not saying the expensive tools don't have their place; but they're a very poor investment for most of us.
One less-expensive tool that can save time in some situations is an EPROM emulator. I also have an HP1610 logic analyzer here free, with manuals, for anyone who wants it. Someone gave it to me but I've never used it. He said there's nothing wrong with it but that it was taken out of service at work for the same reason functioning IBM PC-XT's were. If you're not close enough to come pick it up, it will probably cost about $50 to ship in the US.
It is possible to set up your development system to have good development speed without any of these tools. Emulators especially are normally many thousands of dollars. Simulators, just being software, are sometimes free. I used Microchip's simulator a few times when I was new at using their PIC microcontrollers, but don't anymore because it's virtually worthless-- too cryptic, progress is too slow, etc.. It was marginally useful only when I didn't really know the instruction set yet.
Especially if you use Forth on the 6502, you can get instant turnaround between writing a piece of code on the PC and trying it on your board-- without taking time to re-assemble or transfer the whole image again over RS-232 or whatever. I realize however that getting that going too when you're not very experienced at the 6502 or Forth either is a bit unrealistic.
You'll probably do best to start small and write little building-block routines. Use those as components for bigger building blocks. These first two levels will definitely include some debugging routines which can be called at various points in your code where there seems to be trouble. They might be used to merely tell you that you got to a certain point in the program, or snoop around in your variables, edit various addresses before continuing on, etc.. It is a common pitfall for beginners to lack modularity and debugging utilities in their programming. Then they want to substitute expensive development tools for a clear understanding of the development process. I'm not saying the expensive tools don't have their place; but they're a very poor investment for most of us.
One less-expensive tool that can save time in some situations is an EPROM emulator. I also have an HP1610 logic analyzer here free, with manuals, for anyone who wants it. Someone gave it to me but I've never used it. He said there's nothing wrong with it but that it was taken out of service at work for the same reason functioning IBM PC-XT's were. If you're not close enough to come pick it up, it will probably cost about $50 to ship in the US.
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Nightmaretony
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Bob, the program youwould want ot use is called MAME, for Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. It emulates the entire board in software routines. Source code is available for the program, so you can customize to your board design.
One game placed with permission is called Robby Roto, since the rights to the game reverted back to the programmer, so she gave generously to the MAME group. Its a good way to start out with things and go from there.
As a rule, Atari uses 6502 for most of their games up to Crystal Castles...
One game placed with permission is called Robby Roto, since the rights to the game reverted back to the programmer, so she gave generously to the MAME group. Its a good way to start out with things and go from there.
As a rule, Atari uses 6502 for most of their games up to Crystal Castles...
"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"
Thanks
Thank you guys for your help.
Garthwilson, the simulator software I saw was not only simulating the 6502 processor, but the whole game with the graphics and everything. he was actually playing the game on his PC and whenever he made changes to the program (the game), changes where immediately seen in the game.
Probably it is one of those "several thousands " software.
Nightmaretony, thank you for your help. I will check MAME and see if this is what I am looking for.
Bob
Garthwilson, the simulator software I saw was not only simulating the 6502 processor, but the whole game with the graphics and everything. he was actually playing the game on his PC and whenever he made changes to the program (the game), changes where immediately seen in the game.
Probably it is one of those "several thousands " software.
Nightmaretony, thank you for your help. I will check MAME and see if this is what I am looking for.
Bob