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 Post subject: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 5:29 am 
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Okay, after much hemming and hawing over this I think I've finally settled with a design I want to go with.

Attachment:
6502_Mk1.pdf [390 KiB]
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I still need to layout the PCB for this, but I'd like to get some feed back on this to make sure I haven't done anything glaringly wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 12:06 pm 
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Since you are using CPLD, you can consolidate the functions of 74163 and 7405 in the CPLD and eliminate two chips.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 6:53 pm 
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plasmo wrote:
Since you are using CPLD, you can consolidate the functions of 74163 and 7405 in the CPLD and eliminate two chips.
Bill


Thank you, I'll do that.

I presume I should leave the INT output from the CPLD floating in most situations until I'm ready to drive the line low? Is that correct for the 6502's open drain input?


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 12:07 am 
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Yes, you can simulate an open drain output by having the FPGA pin either float or drive low. (IOW, it never drives high.) There's no such thing as an open drain input, but probably you're referring to vintage peripheral IC's such as the 6522 which feature open drain outputs for the /IRQ pin.

For reasons explained about 20% of the way down this page in Garth's primer, open drain outputs can be problematic with faster systems, and it can be preferable to instead use an actual gate when it's necessary to combine interrupt signals,.

-- Jeff


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figure_3.gif [ 10.78 KiB | Viewed 1160 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 1:04 am 
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Dr Jefyll wrote:
Yes, you can simulate an open drain output by having the FPGA pin either float or drive low. (IOW, it never drives high.) There's no such thing as an open drain input, but probably you're referring to vintage peripheral IC's such as the 6522 which feature open drain outputs for the /IRQ pin.

For reasons explained about 20% of the way down this page in Garth's primer, open drain outputs can be problematic with faster systems, and it can be preferable to instead use an actual gate when it's necessary to combine interrupt signals,.

-- Jeff


Excellent, good to know I was on the right track there.

Yea, I was aware of preferring the use of logic gates for the interrupts. The next design I do I'll use one of the PLCC packages; and I'll likely look at creating an actual interrupt decoder using the 74xx148 or something to that effect.

For now I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can.


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 1:28 am 
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CPLD also has open-collector primitive that can be added to an output. Alternatively you can add a tri-state buffer to the output with the tristate control wired to tristate buffer input thru an inverter. This way when tristate input is low, the buffer is enabled and drive the output low, but when input is high, the buffer is disabled thus the output float, to be pulled up by an external resistor.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:51 pm 
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So I've been fighting with the actual PCB layout for a while now. Seems like I have lots of wasted space and I keep having this nagging feeling in the back of my head that I'm violating some conventional wisdom of how to route things correctly.

This is where I'm at so far
(sorry for the color, but IDK how else to really present this)
Attachment:
Screenshot 2024-06-16 184922.png
Screenshot 2024-06-16 184922.png [ 468.45 KiB | Viewed 967 times ]


Anyone have any advice?


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:56 am 
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Use tighter design rules, you should route 2 traces between IC pads. Pack the components as tightly as possible--should-to-shoulder. You can do it with 2 signal layers, other two layers can be power and ground planes. Use autorouter. If do it manually, don't be afraid of vias. Nothing wrong with using 5 or more vias to get a signal routed. Since it is all DIPS, you can actually do all routings with just 2 layers, but 4-layer pcb are so cheap, I'd go for 4-layer board.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: My test bench PCB
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:21 am 
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plasmo wrote:
Use tighter design rules, you should route 2 traces between IC pads. Pack the components as tightly as possible--should-to-shoulder.

At viewtopic.php?p=80938#p80938 I show how you can get four traces between DIP pads and still not violate the manufacturing capabilities of the cheapest board houses.  Packing stuff in and making the board smaller will minimize trace length and keep the board better behaved for fast parts.  However, with 2MHz or 4MHz parts and 74HC you can get away with murder, and it'll work (assuming you get the logic right).  Here's a 65c02 computer board I had our draftsman lay out in the late 1980's at work.  He was able to get parts shoulder-to-shoulder on a 2-layer board with only two traces between pads.  He complained bitterly, but got it in.


Attachments:
ATC200barePCB.jpg
ATC200barePCB.jpg [ 114.56 KiB | Viewed 954 times ]

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