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 Post subject: Commodore 16 netlist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:07 pm
Posts: 81
Is there a machine-readable netlist for the Commodore 16 anywhere? I've been redrawing the C16 schematic for fun during lockdown and I'd like to check the generated netlist to see if I've made any mistakes in the transcription. This is what the EDA generated:

https://264.rui.nz/C16/Commodore-16.net

..and this is the schematic exported to SVG. Hopefully zoom and pan work:

https://264.rui.nz/C16/

Hope you're all well.


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 Post subject: Re: Commodore 16 netlist
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:20 pm
Posts: 94
Page 5 of the service manual.

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/plus4/C16_Service_Manual_314001-03_(1984_Oct).pdf


Last edited by rpiguy2 on Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Commodore 16 netlist
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:58 pm
Posts: 298
That link got a bit corrupted. It should be http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/plus4/C16_Service_Manual_314001-03_(1984_Oct).pdf
But page 5 is a parts list, not a netlist.

For that era, it wouldn't surprise me if a netlist never existed. The schematics in the service manual are hand-drawn.

One way to check would be to design a PCB for it. Lay the components out in the same positions as the original, and follow the original path for the tracks when you connect each net. If you end up with any unrouted nets, or tracks that the original board has but you don't, you'll know where your schematic was wrong. That's a lot of work, and needs clear pictures of both sides of the original board (including under the components). But if your aim is to recreate the PCB in modern tools, you'll be doing that work anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Commodore 16 netlist
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:20 pm
Posts: 94
John West wrote:
That link got a bit corrupted. It should be http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/plus4/C16_Service_Manual_314001-03_(1984_Oct).pdf
But page 5 is a parts list, not a netlist.

For that era, it wouldn't surprise me if a netlist never existed. The schematics in the service manual are hand-drawn.

One way to check would be to design a PCB for it. Lay the components out in the same positions as the original, and follow the original path for the tracks when you connect each net. If you end up with any unrouted nets, or tracks that the original board has but you don't, you'll know where your schematic was wrong. That's a lot of work, and needs clear pictures of both sides of the original board (including under the components). But if your aim is to recreate the PCB in modern tools, you'll be doing that work anyway.


Yes 100% correct I should have clarified this is likely as close as you are going to get to a Netlist.

I mean they did have VAXen at the time, maybe some of this was done on them. It is a good question for Bil Herd.


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 Post subject: Re: Commodore 16 netlist
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:07 pm
Posts: 81
John West wrote:
One way to check would be to design a PCB for it. Lay the components out in the same positions as the original, and follow the original path for the tracks when you connect each net. If you end up with any unrouted nets, or tracks that the original board has but you don't, you'll know where your schematic was wrong. That's a lot of work, and needs clear pictures of both sides of the original board (including under the components). But if your aim is to recreate the PCB in modern tools, you'll be doing that work anyway.


I have a PCB with no parts:

Attachment:
File comment: Commodore 16 PCB, top side
C16-top.png
C16-top.png [ 3.34 MiB | Viewed 1044 times ]


Unfortunately the board warped. I wonder if it was the hot air that warped the board or if (to some extent) the parts were keeping the 36 year old PCB flat. It's now on a cast iron machine table under a truck battery in an attempt to make it flat again. The silkscreen is slightly blurry in the top left corner. It's more noticeable on the original image (the attachment is 1/7th scale).

The board doesn't quite fit in my scanner. Can anyone recommend software to stitch multiple images together like the "panorama" photo mode on some phones?

For the traces, I had been hoping to lay out the parts on the PCB, skip the routing and post-process the scan of the board to a monochrome image showing copper and not-copper and then use the footprints and layout to automatically generate a net list based on which pins touch which other pins via the copper. Is there software out there for this sort of thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Commodore 16 netlist
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:58 am
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A friend of mine did the same with the more current board Rev.B.

If you don't mind ignoring the german discussion you can enjoy some pictures here:

https://www.forum64.de/index.php?thread/95266-verbessertes-c16-board-ohne-8501-aus-heute-so-gebastelt


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