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65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 2:41 am
by wayfarer
I made a discord server if people want to chat or use the voice call features there.
We might host an event one day for a "Code Jam" using their evet system, though
mostly it is intended to be a chill place for 65xx Development. Forums and Chatrooms
are very different. If anyone wants to join, this is a permanent link to the discord
server. Im aware these come and go, I run several servers on Discord, a few with
Community status.

https://discord.gg/MMjDbTK9mN

the rules are basically "be excellent to each other", all are welcome :)
(I even added a Forth channel :wink: )

if there are other Discord or Community servers, please link them here.

pin thread if desired.

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 3:23 am
by GARTHWILSON
I signed up on Discord two different times when people wanted me involved in their projects; and soon after, I cancelled my account both times because I couldn't figure out how to do anything in it.  Now it won't even work for me.  It says it sends me a verification email to make sure it's really me, but no email comes (and yes, I've checked my email service's junk folder).  I think most of the active members here check 6502.org several times a day though.

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:38 am
by wayfarer
for sure, it is not for everyone, I moved over when IRC started to get tedious
the two factor authentication can be a real pain these days.
you are especially welcome Garth. :)

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:30 am
by Yuri
GARTHWILSON wrote:
I signed up on Discord two different times when people wanted me involved in their projects; and soon after, I cancelled my account both times because I couldn't figure out how to do anything in it.  Now it won't even work for me.  It says it sends me a verification email to make sure it's really me, but no email comes (and yes, I've checked my email service's junk folder).  I think most of the active members here check 6502.org several times a day though.
Discord has a steep learning curve if you're used to older forms of chat. The weird notion that groups create a "server", but it still is on their systems is kind of boggling to my mind still; let alone all their crazy bells and whistles that I'm not even sure I've found half of them yet.

I still have an IRC server running on a network, but I'm guessing it's mostly filled with bots at this point.

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2025 6:42 pm
by BigDumbDinosaur
wayfarer wrote:
if there are other Discord or Community servers, please link them here.

Just to note that the use of the word “servers” in the Discord world has nothing to do with server hardware—“server” refers to an organized group of users—a clique, as it were.

In any case, Discord, in my opinion, is a lousy choice for a 6502.org membership “chill” space.  Discord is user-unfriendly and is mostly geared to the needs of gamers and other file-sharers, not casual users who just want to interactively converse.  Using Discord to chat can be like having to assemble your own telephone from parts and then figure out how to connect it to the POTS network.

An annoying “feature” of Discord is it supports bots, ostensibly to automate maintenance tasks.  More commonly, bots are spam sources, which like E-mail spam, eat up bandwidth and users’ time.

More concerning is that Discord runs on a centralized server farm (much like what runs Google) and uses a proprietary protocol whose workings are generally unknown.  Also, Discord security leaves something to be desired—for example, last time I looked at it, the Discord service didn’t support TLS connections.  The company that owns Discord (Discord, Inc., a for-profit entity) and ultimately controls all Discord access has had multiple run-ins with authorities over transmission of child porn, improper vetting of users and unauthorized retention of conversation data.  This last item bothers me—I would not want my online conversations being logged by an unknown and untrusted third-party entity, which is exactly what Discord has been doing.

XMPP is less hassle, requiring little technical knowledge on the part of a casual user who merely wants to register for an account on a Jabber (i.e., XMPP) server and start chatting.  None of the XMPP servers I have looked at log conversations (one would have to modify and rebuild the source code to enable such a feature).  XMPP has been around since 1999 (Discord was released in 2015), has been thoroughly debugged and, unlike Discord, is a published IETF standard, not proprietary.  Anyone who has a server with a static IP address and a published DNS entry can locally set up and run XMPP—it’s a decentralized protocol.  Conversation logging is controlled by the user, not the XMPP server’s administrator, and XMPP is as secure as one wishes to make it.

BTW, I’m not into chat rooms.  :D

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:29 am
by cjs
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Just to note that the use of the word “servers” in the Discord world has nothing to do with server hardware—“server” refers to an organized group of users—a clique, as it were.
Yeah, that's a really annoying terminology thing they do. A "server" is like this forum. The rest makes sense though: "channels" that are like topics here, etc.
Quote:
Discord is user-unfriendly and is mostly geared to the needs of gamers and other file-sharers, not casual users who just want to interactively converse.
My experience has been exactly the opposite. I find Discord to be one of the best text chat systems out there (and I've used a lot of them, from irc and icb in the '90s onward). It's fairly straightforward to use at a basic level, and properly supports formatting using the easiest standard (Markdown, though less technical users who do not understand the concept of markup may have difficulty with this), has both replies and threads that work reasonably well, and so on. It's definitely a step ahead of Slack, and as far as organisation goes, far ahead of things like IRC or Telegram.

That said, we will all have or own opinions on what kind of UI we like.
Quote:
An annoying “feature” of Discord is it supports bots, ostensibly to automate maintenance tasks.  More commonly, bots are spam sources, which like E-mail spam, eat up bandwidth and users’ time.
Isn't it fortunate that you're not forced to add bots to your channels! I'm sure you just forgot to mention this, and were not trying to spread FUD.
Quote:
Using Discord to chat can be like having to assemble your own telephone from parts and then figure out how to connect it to the POTS network....
XMPP is less hassle, requiring little technical knowledge on the part of a casual user who merely wants to register for an account on a Jabber (i.e., XMPP) server and start chatting. 
My experience with naïve users has been the exact opposite. With Discord you simply give someone a URL to go to in their browser, and they're guided through the client download and joining the "server." To use XMPP you need to figure out on your own which client to use, how to find and register with the server, etc., which is much closer to your "assemble telephone and connect to the POTS network" example.

But I could well be missing something here. Fortunately it's easy enough to compare: just set up an XMPP system for chat and point us at how to start using it, and we'll all be able to compare the two directly.
Quote:
This last item bothers me—I would not want my online conversations being logged by an unknown and untrusted third-party entity, which is exactly what Discord has been doing.
Yes, just as happens with this very forum. It's a good point that you shouldn't post anything in Discord that you don't want available to the general public, just as you do here.
Quote:
BTW, I’m not into chat rooms.  :D
Fair enough. Those who prefer this forum should just continue to use it, and ignore Wayfarer's (and other) Discord servers.

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:17 am
by GARTHWILSON
cjs wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Discord is user-unfriendly [...]
My experience has been exactly the opposite. I find Discord to be one of the best text chat systems out there
I wonder if it's better geared toward smartphones.  I don't (and won't) use a smartphone, and only tried it on my PC, and I really couldn't figure out anything.  It was extremely frustrating.  I know a lot of things are not given much developer attention for a standard PC with a big screen, big keyboard, mouse, multiple windows, etc., only thumb-scrolling and tapping.  It's all "aps" these days (even though real PCs don't need "aps," and everything should be able to be run in a standard browser).

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 3:35 am
by Yuri
GARTHWILSON wrote:
I wonder if it's better geared toward smartphones.  I don't (and won't) use a smartphone, and only tried it on my PC, ...
I use it on my PC all the time, for me the client is not radically different from any other GUI based IRC client that I've used. Just a lot more bells and whistles to sort through, once you figure that it out it isn't too bad.

I'd actually argue that I prefer using it on my PC over my phone or tablet, if for no other reason than I have more screen real estate, and I fat finger stuff on my phone's tiny keyboard all the time. >_<

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 4:37 am
by wayfarer
I have Discord on my phone and Desktop. Ive been chatting online since the dial-up BBS (bulletin board service) days and everything BDD mentioned, has been around since the beginning. I used IRC for a long time, my handle was Storyteller on freenode IRC network. I got introduced to people that worked on the C programming language specification, someone that wrote code on the internet domain name servers that turn words into IP addresses and spoke to the prince of South Korea after they bought it for a few minutes. I moved to discord after that, a lot of users split and went to librechat instead.

I run a (different) fasting information server with like 800 people I 'inherited' from the previous owner. They are called 'servers' because each one is unique and has as many channels as created by the operator, and can host events only for that group. I also run a (different) server for my D&D tabletop rpg games, we meet weekly or more and use voice chat there. I have been a Community manager on discord since the beta for that option. You can ask any of my players, I allow no bigotry, hate speech or criminal activity on my servers of any kind and I am fiercely protective of my group.

Please feel welcome to check us out, live chat might not be for everyone, its different than a forum and both have their places in people's hearts and minds. If chat isn't your cup of tea, you wouldn't like discord. However, if you ever want to jump on voice and talk, or if you like Chat software, I have a Discord for us that do like to use it. :)

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 10:35 am
by BigEd
(FWIW I use Discord in the browser, both on desktop and phone. I'm not a great fan but I find it easy enough to use. It being corporately owned has upsides and downsides: in particular the company takes the legal responsibility for content, unlike a forum. But the company can delete your content, or sell it.)

Re: 65xx Computing Discord

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 4:01 am
by cjs
GARTHWILSON wrote:
I wonder if it's better geared toward smartphones.
Well, I find smartphones a total PITA compared to computers, so I don't use Discord much on my phone. (Just for voice calls and occasionally catching up on conversations while I'm on the train.) So all my comments relate to the desktop application. It can also be used via the web, and while I've not used that much, it seemed very similar to the desktop application. (This is no surprise; the desktop application is an Electron app, which is basically a web app wrapped in a custom browser that makes it look like a desktop application.)
Quote:
...and only tried it on my PC, and I really couldn't figure out anything.  It was extremely frustrating.  I know a lot of things are not given much developer attention for a standard PC with a big screen, big keyboard, mouse, multiple windows, etc., only thumb-scrolling and tapping.
Hm. I'm just not seeing this, though perhaps it's because even when I started with Discord I was familiar with Slack, which has a similar user interface. Unfortunately I don't really have any suggestions here.
BigEd wrote:
[Discord] being corporately owned has upsides and downsides: in particular the company takes the legal responsibility for content, unlike a forum. But the company can delete your content, or sell it.)
Right. I treat Discord as extremely ephemeral; it's a way to contact me and have quick conversations, but anything I need to remain available long-term I write up as a web page, or a post on some web forum in which I have some trust that it will be around for a while. (And either way, make sure that the page is archived in Archive.org's Wayback Machine.)