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 Post subject: 6502 Clock Generation
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:08 am 
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I am having some serious problems finding a can (half or full) oscillator here in New Zealand. Being in a small town I kind of rely on Internet Shops to get the stuff I need, and all the regulars don't seem to stock them.

a) Is it possible to generate the clock (up to 2Mhz is all I need for now) from a 555 setup?

b) Can someone throw up a schematic for a crystal setup that will work between 1 and 14 mhz without using an inductor.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:37 am 
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See
http://www.6502.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64 and
http://www.6502.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68

The CMOS crystal oscillator ap. note at https://web.archive.org/web/20180311021 ... AN-340.pdf should also be helpful.

There are plenty of American distributors that are easy to do business with if you have a credit card and your country's customs office doesn't make things difficult. Try:
http://www.jameco.com
http://www.digi-key.com
http://www.mouser.com
http://www.jdr.com
http://www.alliedelec.com
http://www.debcoelctronics.com

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:46 am 
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Thanks for the forum links.

Unfortunately, they didnt discuss the area I was looking at - External crystal clocks.

I have been hunting the net all day looking for external crystal setups - tried a few of them but some gave 0v outputs, others 5v outputs, and the ones I did get to work were all done through inverting buffers which I'd like to avoid if possible.

Can an external stable clock be made with a crystal, and no inductor or buffers?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:26 pm 
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One tells how to put the crystal directly on the processor's pins.
The ap. note shows how to make your own crystal oscillator.
The distributor links tell where you can buy crystal oscillators already made up, in a can.

I can't think of what else you could want. Is there another option?  An oscillator always requires active components.  That could be an IC inverter, transistor, tube, or something like that.  For a digital computer clock, the rise and fall times you need will most likely be coming from an IC.  If you want to eliminate the IC, you'll have to use more parts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:08 am 
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Opps sorry bout the hassle Garth.

I misread what you had told me months ago about using an IC for the clock generation - thought you had said dont (when in fact you said 'thats not the best way'.

My apologies


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 Post subject: Forum Topic Links
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:17 am 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:

FYI, there's a shorthand you can use for forum topics when typing them in directly:

http://www.6502.org/forum/topic/64
http://www.6502.org/forum/topic/68

Best Regards,
Mike

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:57 am 
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What is the flaw in this for a clock generator?

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:13 pm 
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7400 TTL needs more current to pull the input low than you'll get through the 10K resistor.  Even if the output could go all the way to ground, getting the input down to .4V with as much as 1.6mA would require the resistor to be as low as 250 ohms.  Then you may need to increase the size of the capacitor a lot to get any oscillation at all.  Since TTL inputs are referenced to ground, it would be better to take the capacitor to ground instead of Vcc.  Although they're supposedly the same thing for AC signals, they won't be in practice.

The circuit should oscillate if you replaced the 7404 with 74HC04, but you would not get a square wave out of it, and you may not have very good control of the frequency.  To get the square wave, use an inverter with hysteresis, like the 74HC14.  Frequency will still depend on how much capacitance you have from the input to ground (remember there are a few pF inside the IC, and you'll have stray capacitances on your circuit board), as well as on temperature, operating voltage, and the particular IC's production lot (because of variations in the amount of hysteresis).

I don't have a bench signal generator that can output a square wave in the multi-MHz range; so when I wanted to see how fast my workbench computer would run, I breadboarded a little square-wave generator with the same basic configuration you have above.  Instead of a 10K resistor, I put in a 50K trimmer so I had fine control of the frequency and could vary it while it's running.  Instead of just your 10pF capacitor, I put in a 4.7pF to ground, plus in parallel with it on DIP switches, a 10pF, 22pF, 47pF, 100pF, 220pF, 470pF, and .001uF.  The DIP switches gave me overlapping ranges, leaving the trimmer for the fine adjust.  Then I followed the 74HC14 inverter with the others in the same package for more output drive current.  The first inverter's output (pin 2) went to the inputs of all the other inverters.  Their outputs were all connected together, and fed the oscilloscope or frequency counter as well as the workbench computer I was testing for speed.  If I pull that breadboard back out to use it again, I'll replace the 74HC14 with a 74AC14 since AC has much faster propagation and rise and fall times.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:55 am 
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Not having a wide variety of 'stuff' laying around, I've been playing with Multisim at the local college.

Im buggered if I can get a crystal-based oscillator to work at the proper frequency (or even an crystal related change in the circuit).

Does anyone have an familiarity with Multisim or Electronics Workbench and crystal oscillators?


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