Page 6 of 19
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:29 am
by scotws
Distinct progress: Tali can now run Martin's Mandelbrot without crashing. I haven't timed it yet,
because people are blocking my chair in front of the computer and I have to log in via Chromebook and ssh, and no,
I don't have issues ...
...anyway, it's safe to say it will render in minutes, not seconds. Included, but commented out by default in user_words.asm (
https://github.com/scotws/TaliForth2/bl ... _words.asm) are also little Forth routines to generate primes, Fibonacci and factorials, with original sourcing. They all work.
(I'll be changing Fibonacci to a version that will print one number after another -
instead of just the nth number, because that is more impressive for the kids, but at the moment I'm just happy the recursion works.)
No crashes at the moment, and my little list of Forth tests by hand passes, but I'm going to leave it in ALPHA until I've tested the native compiling feature some more, because I think it might be allocating far too much memory.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:32 pm
by whartung
because people are blocking my chair in front of the computer
Oh, you have cats too?
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:30 am
by scotws
because people are blocking my chair in front of the computer
Oh, you have cats too?
LOL - yes, but they usually stand
on the desk in front of the monitor until I pet them for about ten minutes as a form of tribute. This time it was humans. Humans, I tell you ...
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:20 pm
by scotws
In case this is of any use to somebody else: I've written a small Python tool to strip comments out of Forth code and compact the whitespace so that the result can easily be included in an assembler file:
https://github.com/scotws/TaliForth2/bl ... phisbin.py This makes it easier to write and test Forth code with (say) Gforth and then include it as high level code with (say) the
.incbin directive of Ophis.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:14 am
by barrym95838
Congratulations, Scot! I remembered that I had made an offer some time ago to help you shave a few bytes and cycles, so here goes (untested):
==========================================================================
In taliforth.asm:
Save 9 bytes with:
Code: Select all
cmpl_subroutine:
lda #$20 ; compile "JSR" opcode first
byte $2c ; "bit $4ca9" opcode
cmpl_jump:
lda #$4c ; compile "JMP" opcode first
; Compile the opcode in A
sta (cp)
cmpl_word:
; The cmpl_word routine is the body of all these routines
; and compiles the value on the Return Stack
ply ; LSB of return address
pla ; MSB of return address
iny
bne +
inc
*
sty tmp1
sta tmp1+1
ldy #1
pla ; LSB of word to compile
sta (cp),y
iny
pla ; MSB of word to compile
sta (cp),y
tya
sec ; advance cp by three bytes
adc cp
sta cp
bcc +
inc cp+1
*
jmp (tmp1)
Save 16 bytes with:
Code: Select all
dodefer:
.scope
; """Execute a DEFER statement at runtime: Execute the address we
; find after the caller in the Data Field
; """
; The xt we need is stored in the two bytes after the JSR
; return address, which is what is on top of the Return
; Stack. So all we have to do is replace our return jump
; with what we find there
pla ; LSB
sta tmp1
pla ; MSB
sta tmp1+1
ldy #1
lda (tmp1),y
sta tmp2
iny
lda (tmp1),y
sta tmp2+1
jmp (tmp2) ; This is actually a jump to the new target
.scend
Save 1 byte with:
Code: Select all
dodoes:
.scope
; """Execute the runtime portion of DOES>. See DOES> and
; docs/create-does.txt for details and
; http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving3.htm
; """
; Assumes the address of the CFA of the original defining word
; (say, CONSTANT) is on the top of the Return Stack. Save it
; for a later jump, adding one byte because of the way the
; 6502 works
ply ; LSB
pla ; MSB
iny
bne +
inc
*
sty tmp2
sta tmp2+1
; Next on the Return Stack should be the address of the PFA of
; the calling defined word (say, the name of whatever constant we
; just defined). Move this to the Data Stack, again adding one.
dex
dex
ply
pla
iny
bne +
inc
*
sty 0,x ; LSB
sta 1,x ; MSB
; This leaves the return address from the original main routine
; on top of the Return Stack. We leave that untouched and jump
; to the special code of the defining word. Its RTS instruction
; will take us back to the main routine
jmp (tmp2)
.scend
===============================================================================
In native_words.asm:
Save 12 bytes with:
Code: Select all
branch_runtime:
.scope
; The address on the Return Stack points to the last byte
; of the JSR address, one byte below the branch literal
pla
sta tmpbranch
pla
sta tmpbranch+1
; Keep in mind: the address we just popped points one byte
; lower than the branch literal we want to grab
ldy #1
lda (tmpbranch),y ; LSB
sta tmp1
iny
lda (tmpbranch),y ; MSB
sta tmp1+1
jmp (tmp1)
.scend
Save 2 bytes with:
Code: Select all
literal_runtime:
.scope
; During runtime, we push the value following this word back
; on the Data Stack. The subroutine jump that brought us
; here put the address to return to on the Return Stack -
; this points to the data we need to get. This routine is
; also called (LITERAL) in some Forths
dex
dex
; The 65c02 stores <RETURN-ADDRESS>-1 on the Return Stack,
; so we are actually popping the address-1 of the literal
pla ; LSB
sta tmp1
pla ; MSB
sta tmp1+1
; Fetch the actual literal value and push it on Data stack
ldy #1
lda (tmp1),y ; LSB
sta 0,x
iny
lda (tmp1),y ; MSB
sta 1,x
; Adjust return address and push back on the Return Stack
tya
clc
adc tmp1
tay
lda tmp1+1
adc #0
pha
phy
rts
.scend
Save 4 bytes with:
Code: Select all
xt_negate:
lda #0
sec
sbc 0,x ; LSB
sta 0,x
lda #0
sbc 1,x ; MSB
sta 1,x
z_negate: rts
Save 14 bytes with:
Code: Select all
zero_branch_runtime:
; """In some Forths, this is called (0BRANCH)"""
.scope
; See if the flag is zero, which is the whole purpose of
; this all
inx
inx
lda $fe,x
ora $ff,x
bne _skip
_zero:
; Flag is FALSE, so we take the jump to the address given
; in the two bytes following the JSR
pla
sta tmpbranch
pla
sta tmpbranch+1
; Keep in mind: the address we just popped points one byte
; lower than the branch literal we want to grab
ldy #1
lda (tmpbranch),y
sta tmp1
iny
lda (tmpbranch),y
sta tmp1+1
jmp (tmp1) ; Execute the branch
_skip:
; Flag is TRUE, so we skip over the branch address and
; proceed with the part between IF and THEN
pla ; LSB
clc
adc #2
tay
pla ; MSB
adc #0 ; only need carry
pha
phy
rts
.scend
Mike B.
P.S. All of the return stack gymnastics caused by STC have given me a renewed appreciation of DTC
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:55 am
by scotws
Wow, thank you Mike! I hope to be able to include it during the day ... 12 bytes, 16 bytes, those are serious savings, too. ALPHA indeed!
(If it would be easier for you to send stuff via GitHub pull requests, please feel free ... I've grown to appreciate Git during development, hard to remember I used to do things without version control and experimental branches.)
Yeah, the STC stack games are a bit annoying. I still have to write the native compiling for
>R and such where it is worse: First, strip the part off that saves the return value from both ends of the routines; then, in a future version, strip off the underflow check if the user flags that with a
true flag in
uf-strip. The next Forth is definitely going to be DTC
.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:21 am
by scotws
So, thanks again. It turns out that there is a problem with three of the patches, though two of those seem to be an underlying bug in the previous code.
The first change (cmpl_subroutine) seems to work fine until I try the word
SEE, at which point it prints garbage. SEE is a high-level word, so I'm going to skip that for a moment because it might have to do with the other two:
Both branch_runtime and zero_branch_runtime changes work with simple loops and branches, but this fails both with my original code and your patches. Watch this:
Code: Select all
aaa 100 10 do i dup 20 = if ." twenty " then . loop ; ok
aaa 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 IM
size (decimal): -10
000A 03 00 03 00 9C 07 1C F0 16 F0 00 00 00 00 10 00
001A 00 00 2A 07 2C 09 03 02 18 00 76 00 00 00 2C 09
002A 14 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
The "IM" and "size (decimal) parts belong to
SEE, which is the last word defined when Tali starts (via user_forth.fs). I hadn't noticed this bug before because all the simpler stuff passes, even
Code: Select all
: aaa 100 10 do i 20 = if ." twenty " then loop ; ok
aaa twenty ok
Something is not working when we ask the code to jump between
THEN and
LOOP it seems. I'll have to take a look at the code, and then retry those three patches. Thanks again!
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:44 am
by barrym95838
Code: Select all
: aaa 100 10 do i dup 20 = if ." twenty " then . loop ;
I think you need to insert a
drop before your
then to keep your data stack balanced, but I am not qualified to comment further ... at least not yet ...
Mike B.
P.S. Is your
." and/or your
: parsing that space between the
y in twenty and the closing
" properly?
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:28 am
by scotws
I had copied and pasted the word into Gforth, which did just fine, so it's definitely some problem with Tali somewhere. I'm wondering if the gods of computing are trying to tell me that I should finally switch from 0BRANCH/BRANCH to CS-ROLL/CS-PICK ...
(The space after twenty just makes sure the string doesn't run into the next number, though it does look weird. The balance is okay because of the DUP -- IF always eats one I and . (that's DOT) always prints the other.)
I'm assuming there is one stupid one-byte-off mistake somewhere. Will try to see this evening if Tali 1 has the same problem first, which would make it more fundamental.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:07 pm
by barrym95838
... The balance is okay because of the DUP -- IF always eats one I and . (that's DOT) always prints the other.)
... except that when I is 20
." is executed
instead of
. which would leave the duped 20 on the stack because
." doesn't consume it, right?
Mike B.
P.S. Where is your control stack, BTW? I haven't dug deeply enough to know yet.
A.3.2.3 does a very thorough job of explaining what you should be doing, but it's at the limit of my abilities to fully grok.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:16 pm
by GARTHWILSON
There's no ELSE or UNLOOP or EXIT or LEAVE or anything that wold keep . from getting executed.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:39 pm
by scotws
Well, the inside of the loop looks sort of like this:
Code: Select all
i ( u )
dup ( u u )
20 ( u u 20 )
= ( u f )
if ." twenty " then ( u )
. ( )
The whole
IF/THEN construct doesn't touch the stack, so the number gets passed on; the
." twenty " just prints "twenty", but doesn't touch the stack (well, stuff happens in the background, but it all cancels out).
At the moment, Tali uses the old
0BRANCH and
BRANCH structures from FIG Forth, and the command stack is the Return Stack, thanks to some code magic suggested by Garth. What I probably should do is implement
CS-ROLL and
CS-PICK using the Data Stack ... having old FIG stuff in what is supposed to be an ANSI Forth is sort of cheating
.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:09 pm
by scotws
So, it seems that the issue was a stupid typo while copying the routine from TF1 to TF2, which was pretty clear once I found that Tali Forth 1 didn't show the same issue. Will test various incarnations to make sure it's gone, though.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:42 am
by barrym95838
There's no ELSE or UNLOOP or EXIT or LEAVE or anything that wold keep . from getting executed.
Ah, got it. Please excuse my ignorance.
Mike B.
Re: Introducing Tali Forth for the 65c02 (ALPHA)
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:30 am
by scotws
There's no ELSE or UNLOOP or EXIT or LEAVE or anything that wold keep . from getting executed.
Please excuse my ignorance.
Don't worry, I've given up pretending I'm clever enough to write, let alone read, Forth without stack comments after every single word; I condense it somewhat later, but Forth is always a humbling experience.
This is good example of a line that should be broken into two words anyway:
Code: Select all
: .twenty ( u -- ) 20 = if ." twenty " then ;
followed by
Code: Select all
: aaa ( -- ) 100 10 do i dup .twenty . loop ;
which is a lot clearer.
(Where I still totally suck are loops, which still tend to have a rather Pythonic appearance when I write them; I know that mentally, I'm trying to build something with
BREAK and
CONTINUE, which Forth simply doesn't have ...)