6502.org

Yes, 6502.org is a very useful site and I find myself often using it. I think 6502.org would be a very good home for the scans of these documents
A lot of people that are interested in the 6502 and related semiconductors will already know of this site, or will find their way to it via search engines (IIRC that's how I found it many years ago). In my view, that makes it the logical place for documents about the 6502.

Once Mike has scanned the documents, arrangements can be made to ensure that the resulting files are independently backed-up. So not only would they be available on this site, they would be safe in the event of an server malfunction.

Mark

Hello Everyone:

Guess I ought to weigh in here and dispel any fears that 1) I will be donating these materials to a black hole where no one will see them or will have to pay to see them, and 2) that I won’t be making them public.

As for #1, I have decided that I will not be giving these documents away to a museum, at least not any time soon. One of many reasons being that they have a story to tell which is of great interest to me and my family, a story we wish to better understand. Giving them away might make that more difficult if not impossible, especially if we were to donate them to a place where we would lose access to them or those to whom we might donate them are disinterested and simply file them away. As I wrote to Mike yesterday, my Dad had a long and interesting career after MOS Technology (he went to work for AMI, Zilog, Western Digital, and was the CEO of several Valley start ups, including S3 - later SonicBlue – which was the leader in graphics accelerator chips in the 1990s until Nvidia) and since my family always considered S3 the high point of his career and he rarely talked about MOS Technology except to occasionally explain to guests at our home what the giant photo of the 6502 schematic hanging in his office was when they would inquire, I have only within the last few years become aware of the chip’s historical significance, as well as how beloved it has become. I, therefore, am equally curious about the documents, and feel it would be irresponsible and unfair to limit their exposure to others who might be as fascinated by them as my family is.

Which brings me to #2 - I plan to make each document public, and will be creating a website where I will make all of them available for viewing. Not only would this allow 6502 enthusiasts to see them, but I am also hoping this will “crowd source” my family’s own understanding of the documents – a win-win.

I will be sure to post here when the website I create is up and available for viewing. And thank you for showing interest. It is most welcome!

That's excellent news, and thanks for letting us know!

(And I always find it interesting to hear of someone's career story, even in the briefest terms, so thanks for that sketch.)

I know I'm looking forward to see how far the notion of the 2nd accumulator got, and how that affected the instruction set layout. Thanks for keeping us in the loop!

I expect the 2nd accumulator was considered because the 6800 had one.

As for S3 - alas, their reputation is forever tarnished by their "3D decelerator". But even by then, 3dfx was the market leader for gaming.

That's great news Jen

Good luck with the web site.

If you have any need of some help with understanding anything about the 6502 or indeed anything electronic related, feel free to ask. If in the unlikely event that none of us know, someone is likely to know who or where else to ask...

I look forward to being able to browse the web site and marvel at what work went into creating the technology of the 6502 and related devices.

If you want to know more about the early days of Zilog, one of the founders of the company has been interviewed and has some interesting comments. Shout out if you want to know more.

Mark

I watched a documentary about NASA and how they now wish they had more documentation about the engineering decisions made in the 1960's. In many cases they can reverse engineer the hardware if they don't have the blueprints so they know 'what' what made but not 'why'.

The decisions made along the way to the final product are often just as valuable as the product itself. Was a design decision based on market research, production capabilities, time, available materials? This is where the 'behind the scenes' documentation like were just found for the 6502 are invaluable. They let us see the 'why', not just the 'what'.

Thank you Jen for making these documents available. I can't wait to read them.

For those speculating about what the documents I have might reveal:

One of the folders I found when cleaning out my Dad’s garage was named “AMI Moving Expenses,” which contained all of the documents that my Dad saved from his transition from MOS Technology to AMI in San Jose in 1976. There is a resume in this folder dating to the time he was considering leaving MOS, and under his “professional experience” at MOS, he notes that he was the Product/Program Manager for Microcomputers. He wrote: “In this function, I report to the company president and have responsibility for the overall program planning and execution of efforts surrounding the microprocessor system. This includes participation in decisions regarding product definition, pricing, support activities (hardware and software), customer interface, advertising, factory planning, allocation of available resources and process development.” Of significance as to why I am posting this is the statement that then follows: “The latter responsibility was one I agreed to perform on an interim basis since management of the process development group was lacking. This evolved into a nearly full time job with responsibility for the labor force, supervision and a portion of the engineering of the N Channel Silicon Gate Depletion Load 5 Volt Process. My own responsibilities during this period involved definition of implant dose and energy designs and detailed analysis of critical electrical parameters including mobilities, body effect, gains and critical circuit capacitances. Thus while my primary function was to manage the overall microprocessor program, my primary effort was management and technical assistance in the process development area.”

While I have a handful of documents relating to a rather random variety of topics, the vast majority of what I have (2 thick binders) are highly technical documents relating to the process development area – that is, as far as I can tell (as a layperson, and not an engineer), they relate primarily to the science/chemistry whereby the chip was be manufactured and then how it was tested, not necessarily why it was designed the way it was from a marketing or market need perspective. The samples my husband posted on his twitter account @nwinograd give an idea as to what sort of documents we have. I hope that’s clear… I just don’t want to create any false expectations.

Thanks!

I think I'm right in saying that MOS pioneered the use of ion implants and depletion devices, so there's certainly information of interest there. They also launched at a famously low price point (1/5 of the competition?) and were able to do that partly because of high process yields. So there's that too: process technology was no small part of their innovation and their success.

Don't worry:
Even if these documents wouldn't provide any details about why the layout of the NMOS 6502 looks the way it looks
and only cover the science\chemistry of the chip manufacturing process, maybe at least this could answer some of the
(yet unsolved) questions that came up while dissecting the SID (famous\infamous sound chip used in the C64).
//Assuming that the NMOS manufacturing process at MOS hasn't changed too much within 6 years or so.

I guess it won't happen after all