Hey again everyone!

Another general question, and want your opinions and thoughts, perhaps a link or two.

I personally think that lead-based solders are great. I haven't used any other type, but I have had zero issue using what I've used so far, and do not plan on using something else. I have likewise heard stories of non-lead-based solders coming undone or something going wrong.

I'm guessing there are different percentages, different trace elements, different applications, etc. But overall, the solder either has lead, or it doesn't. The main reason I see for folks to use non-lead-based solder is for environmental/health reasons. Ok cool, whatever floats your boat. But when it comes to the physics, is there any advantage that non-lead-based solders have? Would there be any use for a "weekend warrior" hobbyist to be using a non-lead-based solder?

At the same time, I've heard how "it has been found that lead based solders can cause cancer in the State of California" (I guess Texans are immune to lead solder cancers). Is this REALLY true? When I'm soldering and only crack my window a smidge, am I killing brain cells?

Do any of you have links or data on the safety or lack thereof of lead-based solders? Any studies online I can read? Anything *reliable*?

Any personal experiences with this? Or thoughts? Just a general discussion.

Thanks everyone!

Chad

AIUI, lead in the environment is bad, because it's a cumulative poison, with an affinity for the brain, and it particularly affects the very young, who are still growing their brains.

Much like the situation with smoking and health, there will be many people who are not affected, who might think that it's a fuss over nothing, but there will also be many who are affected. Older people have less to worry about because they have fewer years ahead of them.

So, leaded solder, as solder, may be easier to work with, but it has disadvantages for people (and animals) and especially children.

Oh, and pregnant women, of course, have particular concerns.

Personally, I'd trust government sites:
site:gov.uk lead toxicity
site:gov lead toxicity
site:europa.eu lead toxicity
and I'd trust the World Health Organisation
site:who.int lead toxicity

Looks like there are cardiovascular risks as well as neurological risks.

Well, let's face it... lead is not good for you. period. But then again, you're not suppose to ingest it either. I grew up in the 60's and 70's... lead-based paint, leaded gasoline, leaded solder in all household plumbing and lots more. I started soldering 60 years ago.... have handled countless pounds of solder over the decades (and no gloves). I still use lead-based solder... they still make lead-based solder. In California, pretty much everything gives you cancer. Almost every product has a cancer warning specific to California, but almost no other state (US that is).

Bottom line, you should do your own research and feel comfortable with the decisions you're making when buying materials, parts and such. Unless you're planning on soldering daily for hours on end (which I did for 4+ years), I don't think it's going to matter much as a home hobbyist. However, if you are planning to do a large amount of soldering, get some exhaust equipment as the fumes from the rosin flux will be more of an immediate health issue

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https://github.com/floobydust

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

Colour me unsurprised.

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Thank you everyone, good info.



I am not a smoker, but you can say I was for some time in my life. I wouldn't say I was *ever* a stellar athlete, not sure if I'm any worse for that time or not, but I certainly won't be going back.



Thank you for the links. Nothing personal Ed, but those are exactly who I wouldn't trust. BDD and Garth make mention of this further down.



My wife says there was a sharp down-tick in moral standards coinciding with lead based fuel. Could be a coincidence though?



Indeed. This is actually why I'm asking this at all. Not necessarily for myself. But say I tell a friend, "Hey, lead-based solders are the best!" and then he later claims I'm trying to kill him or something. And what if an organization or company endorses lead-based solders, could a customer sue them? All too serious a thought when McDonald's gets sued for not putting "Caution: Hot Contents!" on each. And. Every. Coffee. Cup. It. Sells. Waaayyy too easy to just sue over your personal stupidity. And then legal fees for littler companies could easily bankrupt them.



If BDD simply distrusts them, I think they are producing anti-truth. If I go further, even here, I might even get "cancelled"!



And those fumes are in ALL solders right? Lead-based and lead-free?



You had once told me this, and it makes sense with what BDD said about the melting point stuff.



THAT is a darn good case for leaded solder! Extremely helpful information, thank you. See, it's not just *us*, it's also *them*.



So many folks say the decline of the Roman Empire was due to lead pipes. Wrong. It was super inflation and government corruption. Hm! I see that very same thing... today.



Yet again, another very good point. When I'm inhaling those fumes, it's flux fumes, not lead fumes! Ah, good ol' gravity.

This has been extremely educational. Thank you all for this insight. Some of these particular comments were extremely on point and exactly what I was looking for.

If anyone else has more to add, I'm more than happy to listen. Thank you all!

Chad

I think it's good for all of us, and for the health of the forum, to try our best not to politicise discussions.

We all have political opinions, and none of us are likely to be swayed by hearing other's opinions. Airing our opinions, then, is only going to divide us, as we disclose which of several camps we sit in.

The end point of that is that some people feel unwelcome. As I say, it's bad for the forum, the purpose of which is to share and enjoy our interests in and around the 6502.

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

When left squares off against right, one of the first casualties is the truth. That's all this proud Californian has to say about that, on this forum anyway.

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Mike B. (about me) (learning how to github)

History will not be kind on the incompetence of governmental "authorities" in the past several years:

* Dr. Fauci funded the Wuhan lab through the EcoLab Alliance.
* Prolonged shutdown of the economy destroyed numerous small businesses.
* Prolonged shutdown of in-person learning set back the education and indeed the mental health of countless children.
* Prolonged masking requirements harmed the acquisition of spoken language skills by young children.
* Denial of the validity of natural immunity after recovering from COVID led to draconian mandates of vaccines which do not truly block infection or spread.
* CDC credibility destroyed by ever changing guidelines on masking: they do not work, wear one, wear multiple.
* Prolonged paying people to stay at home was a part of the breakdown of the supply chain and businesses continuing to be unable to find help.

I completely agree. But with that said:



Ed, I most certainly had no intention of bringing up politics here. I do not want anyone to feel uncomfortable. But that goes two ways, because "government" or "authorities" are not neutral. Governmental sources are just as "political" as non-governemental sources. See Ed, "government" makes ME feel uncomfortable.

I see you often say (and as BDD pointed out here), "I personally would..." or something similar, which is exactly right. You personally feel one way, and it just so happens that I (in this particular case) feel a different way. That's ok! I certainly don't want to attack your person, by any means! You have been very helpful to me and so many others throughout the years, and I thank you for that.

I am all about staying on topic, but when I get fired up about something that I *personally* have great feelings for, it's hard to resist. Forgive me. It will most likely slip again sometime in the future, so please forgive me then too.

Going back to the topic:

The case of leaded solder has been made for me. Summary:

1) Both leaded and lead-free solders will have flux fumes.
2) Lead is heavier than air, so lead isn't present in the fumes.
3) The dangers of lead are predominantly from ingestion, not so much contact.
4) Washing hands after soldering is a good practice regardless of lead content.
5) American military and medical entities require leaded solder for reliability.

I can't give you proof/links on each one of these, but that's good enough for me *personally*. Anyone else is free to disagree of course.

Thank you all, I appreciate the help on this topic.

Chad

This thread has gone a bit off track but the facts point to that we have a few generations of people who could’ve had quite a few more IQ points but don’t. Luckily they also managed to ban leaded gasoline before it had enough effect to prevent them from doing so..
So far everything points to ANY amount of lead in your system is bad.

For that reason I don’t use leaded solder - and also because I just can’t find any reason not to use lead free.. Leaded might be more forgiving but I wouldn’t know - I’ve never had any of the issues people complain about.

And no matter what you use: Slightly cranking a window won’t cut it - flux fumes are bad for you too and a carbon filter fan isn’t that expensive.. your health might be.

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New new new new new video out! Serial Bootloader for my 65uino
Also, check out: I2C on a 6502 Single Board Computer
and Complete hardware overview of my 6502 SBC R1

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

Perhaps I could’ve been a smarter person, but I guess I’ll never know. I’ve spent 15 years in my 20’s and 30’s shooting pistol competitively. A lead bullet generates fine aerosolized lead powder as it exits the gun barrel and competitive shooters would fire about 200 rounds a week in enclosed indoor range. Many gun ranges now have ventilation system that move air from behind the shooter forward, but not during my days of shooting. Olympic shooters of my day should be brain dead, yet my shooting partner is a smart Olympic class shooter working in technical field well into his retirement age. Just a data point about lead toxicity, for what it is worth.

Oh, yes, I used lead solder ever since my teenage days building Heathkits. I continue to use lead solder to this day.
Bill