Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8505
Location: Midwestern USA
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floobydust wrote: I've looked at this project...I would be more inclined to compare it to the old "Pinball Construction Set"... which was fun for a short period of time.... but you would never be able to learn how to build a real Pinball machine from it.
I've never been much of a video game player, but back in the days (late 1970s to early 1980s) when coin-operated, video arcade games were ubiquitous, I would periodically play one. One that I played several times was a drag racing "action" game which put the player in the seat of a race car powered by a small-block Chevy with stick shift. Now, up until 1990 or thereabouts, I was into real-life drag racing (see below), and charging down the quarter mile with a Chevy V-8 screaming at 9000 RPM was almost second-nature to me.
My takeaway on the video game version of drag racing was just what you describe of this breadboard simulation: fun for a few goes, but then...what? There was no punch in the back as you leave the starting line, no wheelie as you hit second gear (my car would also lift the front wheels going into 3rd), no torque steer to counteract, no heart-in-the-mouth feeling from the car getting sideways, etc. Succinctly, you'd never learn how to drive a race car by spending time playing a video game that is a simulation of driving a race car. In particular, the potential consequences of goofing up can't be simulated, and it is experiencing the consequences that enhances the learning experience.
So it is with this sort of simulation. If it piques someone's interest into building and programming actual hardware, then great! Beyond that, I'm just not seeing much learning value in it.
Quote: There are multiple threads out here where folks spend a lot of time helping a newbie sort out problems with their so-called design. Unfortunately, as we all have good intentions, I don't see the forum members (collectively) being to teach someone how to do digital circuit design, engineering and building of basic 65(C)02 or other types of systems.
The unfortunate reality is digital design, engineering and building is vast and complex subject that is difficult and time-consuming to master. 6502.org is geared more to those who already know enough electronics to build at least a basic machine that can blink lights or maybe scribble on a screen. As a learning source for someone is a total novice, 6502.org is not going to be much help. Even Garth's 6502 primer, as good as it is, can't explain everything about electronics. His web server wouldn't have the disk capacity to hold that much information.
Where 6502.org is useful to the newbie is in filling in knowledge gaps. When I signed up here 12 years ago I had already had a long career in electronics and computers, including patents for two digital circuit designs. Plus I had written several major vertical packages for clients, one of them that was 100 percent 6502 assembly language (with one line of BASIC: SYS 2061) Yet there was still plenty for me to learn before I could build POC V1.0 and have it working. Most of the gaps in my knowledge got closed right here.
Quote: We can all link our own projects and describe what we did, how we did and why we did on design concepts, circuitry, parts selection, layout, etc., but that doesn't necessarily apply to building something completely different. On the positive side, the members here go to great lengths to help everyone who posts here, which is the real charm of posting here.
Oftentimes, one can solve one's own design problems not by seeing how someone else solved the same problem (indeed, no one may have done so at the time), but by seeing the steps that were taken to solve a similar problem. That is the primary value in the build topics that are here. My machine isn't the same as yours, or Garth's or Drogon's, etc., but our machines all share the same fundamentals, and have the same potential for design and construction problems. Seeing how our machines came together can inform someone else of what could lie ahead as they come up with their design.
Quote: Perhaps a new category on building a first, simple system... but that could easily be another "pandora's box"! So coming full circle, while this is a cool project, don't confuse it as a proper learning aid.
We have the Newbies subforum, and there is Garth's 6502 primer, which essentially takes you from Accumulator to Zero page. Although it may be impudent of me to say it, if you can't build a working basic unit after reading Garth's primer from "cover-to-cover" then perhaps you shouldn't consider homebrew computers for a hobby.
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_________________ x86? We ain't got no x86. We don't NEED no stinking x86!
Last edited by BigDumbDinosaur on Tue May 11, 2021 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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