Hello guys,
I am new to this forum. I am a great fan of the Gottlieb Pinball machines witch uses the 6502 architecture.

Currently i am working on a Gottlieb System 3 projects witch uses a 65SC02 processor and 65SC22 VIA's

The exact partnumber is 65SC02P-2.

Is this 65SC02 processor compatible with the 65C02 version or it thare someone who could tell me te differece?

Also i look for 1 new processor. The R/W line of mine is dead but i cant find it on the internet. Does someone has an adress whare to get these?

Best regards,
Ben

hi Ben, I am doing a pinball using the 65C02 and have 2 System 3 Gottlieb pinballs in my car at a side job. No idea of the differences in the SC02 compared to the C02. Should work, far as I know. If you have the schematic, what does it say? At least the architecture of system 3 is a tiny bit saner than system 80 which used 3 6532 RAMbanks as the cpu memory. (it adds exciting new dimensions to troubleshooting dead boards

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"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"

I have the schematics.

That say 6522AP and 65C02P. So it shouldn't be a problem i guess.

Agreed. the system 3 is fairly bulletproof in design, much more than the WMS later systems or Midway. How is your reset as well as clocking or is it only the r/w line having a problem?

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"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"

I bought an 65C02p-3 and will try that one tomorrow.

The reset was going from HI to LOW. I made a jumper on an ic (dont know witch number anymore) and now it goes from LO to HI.
The clock was missing i replaced the cristal and U18 and now i have a clock.

All adress/datalines are pulsing but the R/W is stuck at HI. I desoldered the pin and checked if a signal is comming out of the cpu. None what so ever.

Ill keep you updated.

The reset should hang out at hi afterwards. If it is low, it will be stuck tight and do nothing.

Am not sure how the 65C02 will behave with no program, perhaps it turns into a NOp generator? The r/w being high means it is trying to read its program. How is your program eprom? Email me a copy of it if you have an eprom burner, I can compare to the roms in my collection and let you know if it is ok.

which game is it, anyways?

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"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"

The SC02 doesn't have the BBR, BBS, RMB and SMB instructions.

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Andrew Jacobs
6502 & PIC Stuff - http://www.obelisk.me.uk/
Cross-Platform 6502/65C02/65816 Macro Assembler - http://www.obelisk.me.uk/dev65/
Open Source Projects - https://github.com/andrew-jacobs

Oke so the 65C02 will work... What about the Mhz? Will a 3 Mhz run in a 2 Mhz place?

The orignal was blown but i burned a new one on a fresh 27512. Only i don't know if the original eprom was a 27256. Otherwise it should be doubled up i think.

Just for the record again. The R/W without the resitor attached gave nothing. Not even LO, but just no connecton! I checked it with my led tester. So not HI or LO but NO signal

Is the r/w open collector and needs the pullup? not sure there.

I dont see any reason why a 3 MHz CPU cannot work in place of a 2 MHz. Should work fine.

If you cant get it going, I can give you where to send it to get repaired.

Also, one thing that may help, build a NOP tester elsewhere on this site and see how well the address strobes and signals are running round....

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"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"

IIRC it's only the Rockwell parts that have the BBR, BBS, RMB, and SMB instructions.

The 65C02 parts from other manufactureres don't have these instructions.

Toshi

WDC's 65c02's do have the RMB, SMB, BBS, and BBR instructions starting about 15 years ago. Initially I think they put a "B" at the end of the part number to show that it was one with these bit instructions, but then said they all have them now so there's no need to specify.

Using a continuity meter from the R/W\ output to the Vss or Vdd pin should show the voltage drop of the protection diode. (I just tried it.) I do have a 65c22 here with one bad bond wire on a port pin-- totally open circuit. It's rare, but obviously can happen.

Well the R/W line seems to pulse. No IRQ. but i don't know if the IRQ line has to pulse.

For other Gottlieb boards you have a simple test program that pulls all lines up and high (even of the RIOT).

Doesn't anyone has an testeprom for the 65c02 with some 65c22's VIA's attached?

Is the /IRQ low or high?

Gottlieb is kinda particular about their manuals online. Butt his should help out bigtime:

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys3/

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"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"

Well i made a jumper for the RESET line to get it to work.
The System 3 repairguide from Clay has some strange points.
On Google groups thare was someone who said it was impossible to test this cpu on a workbench.

So i tried it in the machine. Removed the jumper i made an saw that the RESET line was pulsing.

After looking into the schamatics (i have a pdf of the machine's manual) i could only figure out is was the 74HC123. If got a spare, but same problem. Well Clay mentioned on his site that you realy have to get the 74HC123AN version and not the N. Don't know what the difference is, but i ordered one just to be sure.