Currently I am writing some ProDOS commands for ProForth on the Apple II.

I don't have a built in assembler in Forth, mostly because I have trouble grasping the RPN of assembly. But that's ok. I found a really cool way to add assembly into my words. I have a pretty good assembler outside of Forth, so the question is how to get the resulting code into Forth without having to type the code in.

I created a Forth word call BLOAD. Which can load a binary file to a buffer. All we have to do is designate where that buffer is.

In ProForth one creates a code word like this:

: TEST ;CODE [ HEX 20 C, FC58 , A0 , ... etc ] ;

As you can see, it takes a bit of typing to type in the code by hand. Then it finally dawned on me that since all code between [ and ] are immediately executed I should also be able to use disk commands.

The final result is:

: TEST ;CODE [ HERE BLOAD BINARY.PRGRM ] ;

HERE designates the address after the word TEST and the binary program is loaded right there.

No more typing in lists of hex digits followed by commas.

Remember that all words between the brackets are executed immediately (just as if typing at the OK prompt) and does not get compiled into the word definition.

Is there a place I can follow your progress? I'm currently looking into adding file support into Tali2. I don't have an OS to help get info from disk, so I've written a very basic FAT32 implementation to access the files. I have support for using a file as a block device (reading and writing data, but I don't have support for writing to the FAT so it can't be resized), but I'd prefer to be able to do something like:or ANS2012 Forth's File-Access extension word INCLUDEBased on some of your other posts, I believe you are doing something similar for ProDOS.

The RPN assembly grows on you if you start using it, but you do have to force yourself to use it and double-check the opcodes (and the stack to make sure there aren't left-overs) the first few times. For simple code, I totally just compile in the opcodes like you've shown.

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Interesting. I've never tried but always thought an RPN style assembler would be more like this:That way the operation can see if FOOBAR fits in one byte and can output the zero page version followed by FOOBAR.

Was that a common way to do it and are there any unforeseen pitfalls?

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

(This post has been moved; see Embedding/Manipulating Assembler in Higher Level Languages.)

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Curt J. Sampson - github.com/0cjs

NOOOOOOOOOooooooooo..........!!!!!!!! Every thread I read gets derailed into talking about do things using a Forth assembler.

I was trying to point out that I can load a binary file directly into a word definition, and you guys pick up on that I don't do assembly in Forth. This conversation is getting way off the subject line. :O)

I was hoping to see more examples using the brackets within word definitions.

And although a Forth assembler CAN be done, a Forth assembler just doesn't have the features I need. Like copy/paste, find/replace, insert/delete. And is just counter productive for me at this time.

This is as good as any a place to ask questions, or maybe start a new thread directed at disk access.

That is a problem as I rely heavily on the ProDOS OS which differs greatly from an OS that uses FAT32. The structure of a disk-access call for ProDOS is

JSR $BF00
HEX command
DW parmtable

The "command" can be anything from creating directories to deleting files to loading/writing blocks to open/load/write files as a whole. Plus a few more commands for other things.

A parameter table is very easy to create. I just use the CONSTANT word definition.

HERE 3 C, 0 , BF70 @ 400 - , 0 C, CONSTANT OPARM

To make a call to the OS then is just:

: OPENFILE OPARM COMMAND OSI ; (OSI being the OS Interpreter)


Without access to an OS, it is a little difficult to Read/Write to a file. Even with the command calls I made just above, it still requires knowledge of the Parameter tables for each command and an OS to react on those parameters for file manipulation. Following what I do will only confuse you and lead you astray.

It is just too counter productive for me to concentrate on and get used to its structure right now.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

I don't see any need to worry; my hope is that we will swiftly move off Forth assemblers and on to Python assemblers. :-)

Actually, I take your point, and would prefer a wider view of assembly embedding anyway, so I've copied Garth's post and moved my reply to a new topic: Embedding/Manipulating Assembler in Higher Level Languages.

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Curt J. Sampson - github.com/0cjs

Great point: keep topics on track, and if suggesting alternative approaches, put them in a new thead.

Garth: IamRob is not joking. It's a derail, and it's distressing.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

It was my fault. I brought up 2 different subjects in my post, but the one I wanted to concentrate on the most is the one in the subject line. It is not so much a joke as an amusing observation that the Forth Assembler comes into play in every discussion.

Eventually I will program one in just because I like playing with Forth. Garth also brought up a good comment that the functions I need are part of the editor (copy/paste, find/replace, insert/delete) and not the assembler, but the problem becomes when I need to be able to use these functions when using the assembler. Those functions are usually part of the screens editor.

But if I can interact certain functions to work across multiple vocabularies then that might save me some code when not only creating applications like a word processor or spreadsheet, but also be able to use those functions when executing those applications.

Another analogy would be, I would need those functions to create a game, but would not need those functions when running the game, which is why I would not want those functions to be part of the Forth system.

For everything to be usable (Assembler, Editor, Forth system) at the same time, and on top of that try to create an application or game, requires a virtual memory system that allows one to swap memory modules in and out so one always has available memory, or if one wants to use shared resources for both creating and editing an application, and also have the same resources available when running an application if needed.

If all this confuses anyone, it just means I am looking down the road, long term usage, to be able to make efficient use of not only vocabularies but certain modules within a vocabulary. I am looking for a way to use certain functions that can be shared with all the vocabularies without making the functions part of the Forth system or duplicating the functions in each vocabulary.

One way is to have multiple Forth systems. Each Forth would contain different functions depending on whether one is editing/assembling or running programs.

I also like the idea of having an INCLUDE word that can load in module functions that are compiled before compiling the program. As an example, the editor could include functions this way:

INCLUDE COPY/PASTE
INCLUDE FIND/REPLACE
INCLUDE INSERT/DELETE
... remainder of the editor

And then the assembler could use the editor with just one line.

INCLUDE EDITOR

I will use this post to establish a base-line of what I am trying to achieve and will delve more in my next post how I might be able to achieve that with the use of the left and right brackets. Things are still forming in my head, but thanks for some of the ideas mentioned so far.