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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:11 pm 
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This looks very well! :D
It would be a tricky new(?) way to stretch the clock, one that should work even with a NMOS 6502 where RDY don't work for writes. I need to try to simulate that to be sure it works.
Thinking about that it just came to my mind if it would work to use GCLK to clock fast IO (like 65C22) having timers inside counting the clock. Then these counters and related timings would not disturbed by accessing slow IO. :!:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Attachment:
clock_generator_2phase_modified.gif
clock_generator_2phase_modified.gif [ 24.63 KiB | Viewed 3629 times ]
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Opinions?

Green on a black background kinda sucks. (Oh! -- about the circuit, you mean! :wink: :P )

Don't forget the humble JK flipflop (below). I've drawn this using 'AC112, but with trivial changes the 'AC109 will also work. (With J and /K tied together the '109 can masquerade as a '74, which increases the potential utility of the other flipflop section in the package.) With this circuit it's better if your /STP signal becomes valid before the rise of Phi2 (but I assume that's already the case).
Attachment:
clock_generator_using_JK.png
clock_generator_using_JK.png [ 16.69 KiB | Viewed 3630 times ]
Attachment:
74_112 truth table.png
74_112 truth table.png [ 18.42 KiB | Viewed 3616 times ]


On another topic, I noticed the following portion of your schematic (below). Maybe eight of those nine jumpers can be omitted. Assuming the 'ACT541 is in a socket, it could, for testing purposes, be removed and replaced with a male header wired to simply bridge the inputs straight to the outputs (which is what the jumpers did). Of course the test would apply to all 8 of the signals -- IOW you can't pick & choose on an individual basis. That doesn't seem to me like a dealbreaker, though. If necessary you could use pullup resistors to alter the VOH of individual signals.
Attachment:
jumper block.png
jumper block.png [ 32.98 KiB | Viewed 3630 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Dr Jefyll wrote:
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Opinions?

Green on a black background kinda sucks. (Oh! -- about the circuit, you mean! :wink: :P )

Picky, picky! :D

Attachment:
File comment: Two-Phase Clock Generator w/Stop
clock_generator_2phase_modified.gif
clock_generator_2phase_modified.gif [ 23.83 KiB | Viewed 3608 times ]

Quote:
Don't forget the humble JK flipflop (below). I've drawn this using 'AC112, but with trivial changes the 'AC109 will also work. (With J and /K tied together the '109 can masquerade as a '74, which increases the potential utility of the other flipflop section in the package.) With this circuit it's better if your /STP signal becomes valid before the rise of Phi2 (but I assume that's already the case).

Yes, that would work as well. Once advantage the 'AC74 has over the 'AC112 is the former is in a smaller package.

The CPLD logic is such that it would make a decision on wait-stating when GCLK goes high. At that point, the effective address has settled and I have the whole of the GCLK high phase in which to assert /STP and stop everything. Similarly, when the wait-state expires, /STP would be de-asserted during GCLK high, keeping Ø2 in phase with GCLK. In both case, so my thinking goes, the change of state of /STP will always slightly lag the rise of GCLK due to the CPLD's pin-to-pin delay (7-10ns), which should eliminate any glitches.

In any case, my main question is if my idea is even feasible.

Quote:
On another topic, I noticed the following portion of your schematic (below). Maybe eight of those nine jumpers can be omitted. Assuming the 'ACT541 is in a socket...

The 'ACT541 is in an SOIC20 package, hence the jumper block.

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 pm 
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GaBuZoMeu wrote:
Thinking about that it just came to my mind if it would work to use GCLK to clock fast IO (like 65C22) having timers inside counting the clock. Then these counters and related timings would not disturbed by accessing slow IO. :!:

Good observation.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:16 am 
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I added some circuitry to implement "clock stretching" to be used in lieu of RDY for generating wait-states. The clock control circuitry is arranged so I can isolate it with jumpers from the rest of the system for experimentation purposes. I also did some rearranging of the PCB in order to get a more favorable routing of the /IRQ line and some other traces. The updated schematic and PCB layout are attached. I will go over these once more in a day or two to double-check for errors, after which the Gerbers will be submitted to get boards made.

Attachment:
File comment: Schematic
poc_v2.2_schematic.pdf [364.34 KiB]
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Attachment:
File comment: Printed Circuit Board
poc_v2.2_pcb.gif
poc_v2.2_pcb.gif [ 136.15 KiB | Viewed 3538 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Well, no response of anyone else so far.
I downloaded your schematic and take a glimpse on it - didn't find anything annoying :)
You have made no provisions for a (G)CLK signal on the expansion header - probably you intend no sort of extension that could benefit from that.

Regards.


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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:49 pm 
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GaBuZoMeu wrote:
You have made no provisions for a (G)CLK signal on the expansion header - probably you intend no sort of extension that could benefit from that.

Anything that would be connected to the expansion socket would be using the Intel-style read/write circuitry and would not require reference to GCLK. The only peripheral I have built to date to plug into expansion is a SCSI host adapter, which has its own clock source.

Attachment:
File comment: SCSI Host Adapter PCB
scsi_hba_pcb.gif
scsi_hba_pcb.gif [ 70.37 KiB | Viewed 3478 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: SCSI Host Adapter Schematic
scsi_hba_schematic.pdf [99.45 KiB]
Downloaded 171 times

Attachment:
File comment: SCSI-SE Host Adapter
hba01.jpg
hba01.jpg [ 2.66 MiB | Viewed 2864 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:56 pm 
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Like everything else, this project ended up on the back burner as I grappled with medical maladies. I was able to assemble the unit and do some preliminary testing before I ended up in the hospital. However, too much time has elapsed from then to now. So I need to start from scratch with testing—I have no recollection of how far I had gotten—and see if it will go or blow. Meanwhile, I'm in a race to catch up with client work I was doing when the hospital beckoned. :D So I am not sure when I will be able to get back on this.

Meanwhile, here are some photos of POC V2.2 I had taken during and after assembly.

Attachment:
File comment: POC V2.2 Bare PCB
poc_v2.2_pcb_bare_top.gif
poc_v2.2_pcb_bare_top.gif [ 1.13 MiB | Viewed 953 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: POC V2.2 PCB w/SMT Devices
poc_v2.2_pcb_with_smt_chips.gif
poc_v2.2_pcb_with_smt_chips.gif [ 1.61 MiB | Viewed 953 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: POC V2.2 Assembled
poc_v22.gif
poc_v22.gif [ 2.55 MiB | Viewed 953 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:37 am 
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Looks very nice. Good to see another '816 system going!

Cheers,

-Gordon

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:49 pm 
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drogon wrote:
Looks very nice. Good to see another '816 system going!

Cheers,

-Gordon

Thanks! Of course, I have no idea at this point if it will work. :shock:

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 Post subject: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:57 pm 
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Hello,
Nice to know You're back.
And I'm still interested in putting the parts I already have to work.

BR/
Guus


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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:31 am 
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Guus Assmann wrote:
Hello,
Nice to know You're back.
And I'm still interested in putting the parts I already have to work.

BR/
Guus

I hope to get back on this in a month or two. As I lost a fair amount of time while undergoing treatment and rehab, I have quite a bit of client work waiting for me. I best get to it, since I need to pay all those hospital and doctor bills. :D

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:20 am 
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I've given up for now on my homebrew computing escapades.

I cannot see well enough to do any close electronic work and writing code has gotten to be quite difficult thanks to damage to central vision in my left eye. I've tried, but I seem to routinely mix up instructions that are easily mixed up, e.g., TXA vs. TAX. I've been undergoing treatment for nearly two years in an attempt to mitigate the vision problems but am seeing little progress. I'd like to think that things will improve and I'll soon be back in the saddle writing code, etc. However, reality is what matters and that reality is I'm a curmudgeon with failing vision. So it seems my POC V2 project has become an orphan. It's been fun...

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:40 pm 
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BDD,

I'm so sorry to hear that! If you ever need help soldering stuff, let me know. I love doing it and I'm not too bad at it.

Anything I can do to help....

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 Post subject: Re: POC VERSION TWO
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Also very sorry to hear that your vision has prevented you from finishing up the hardware and from doing any programming. I'd also be willing to help out with anything on assembly, etc. if you like.

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