6502.org Forum  Projects  Code  Documents  Tools  Forum
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 6:32 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Trace widths
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 am
Posts: 740
Location: A missile silo somewhere under southern England
I was wondering what widths people use for their traces in their 65C02 projects?

I'm currently using 0.01 inches (0.254mm), but think I can probably get away with thinner traces.
Power wise, I either use entire layers or 0.016 inches (0.4064mm) or greater.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8546
Location: Southern California
usually .006/.006. Below that, many board manufacturers start charging more. But for more of the reasons and possibly unexpected considerations, see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3519&p=41840#p41840
If you want to pay, some board houses can make the trace as narrow as its thickness, so it has a square cross section. How they can do that is beyond me, but I've seen photomicrographs of it. Narrow traces are not any more delicate than wide ones.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8514
Location: Midwestern USA
banedon wrote:
I was wondering what widths people use for their traces in their 65C02 projects?

I'm currently using 0.01 inches (0.254mm), but think I can probably get away with thinner traces.
Power wise, I either use entire layers or 0.016 inches (0.4064mm) or greater.

All of the signal traces in my POC units are 6 mils width. Also, I used 26 mil diameter via drilled to 8 mils. Generally speaking, I use the narrowest traces I can consistent with the expected current flow. That makes it easier to get a dense layout.

As for power distribution, all my POC designs are four-layer boards, with one internal ground layer and one internal power layer. Non-computer projects are mostly built on two-layer boards, in some cases, using filled planes (aka "pours") for ground.

For the purpose of sizing power-handling traces I use the following:

    0.010" — 0.3 amps
    0.015" — 0.4 amps
    0.020" — 0.7 amps
    0.025" — 1.0 amps
    0.050" — 2.0 amps
    0.100" — 4.0 amps
    0.150" — 6.0 amps
    0.200" — 8.0 amps
    0.250" — 10.0 amps

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 am
Posts: 740
Location: A missile silo somewhere under southern England
PCBtrain (who I'm currently getting PCBs made with) have advised that they can go down to 0.125mm (0.0049 inches / 4.92thou) trace/gap width without charging extra.
Looks like some rerouting is in order. I've been struggling with my 65C02GPDv2 design as it uses PLCC44 sockets which isn't as handy routing wise as DIPs.

Thanks for the info on trace widths vs power - very useful :).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8546
Location: Southern California
banedon wrote:
Looks like some rerouting is in order. I've been struggling with my 65C02GPDv2 design as it uses PLCC44 sockets which isn't as handy routing wise as DIPs.

Fortunately the PLCC thru-hole sockets have their pins on .100" centers, so you can still run 3 traces between pads if necessary. :) With .005" trace/space, you could even get four traces between pads. I don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon myself though.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 am
Posts: 740
Location: A missile silo somewhere under southern England
GARTHWILSON wrote:
banedon wrote:
so you can still run 3 traces between pads if necessary.

Yep I already discovered that this evening :). I'm a bit concerned about running traces around VCC pins. Do you normally give them a wide berth or is it ok to run them straight past?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8546
Location: Southern California
Why would there be any problem? A .007" gap would take over five hundred volts to arc in dry air, if I did my calculation correctly. It should be a lot more more with soldermask over the trace.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 am
Posts: 740
Location: A missile silo somewhere under southern England
Not worried about arcing (should have been clearer), but about signal being affected. I did seem to get a bit of this on one of my bus monitor projects when I ran a trace passed the VCC connection to a backlit 44780 LCD module.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8546
Location: Southern California
The capacitive coupling between a trace and a Vcc pin it runs past is a fraction of a pF, totally inconsequential. OTOH, the inductive coupling between two traces that run parallel to each other for a significant length, and with the two much closer to each other than they are to the ground plane, can be another matter. However, if the Vcc trace is bypassed to the ground plane at every Vcc pin, there should be very little AC signal on it to get into other things. If you have a Vcc plane as well, there's nothing to worry about.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trace widths
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:24 am
Posts: 740
Location: A missile silo somewhere under southern England
In that case I'll not worry about the VCC pins - thanks for advising :). I'm off now to do some routing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: