Thanks to Olaf Rhialto who posted this to cbm-hackers:


Here's a message giving two people's feedback on a query about the (new) VIC-20
http://article.olduse.net/472%40Ayale-com.UUCP

And here's another opinion:
http://article.olduse.net/201%40houxm.UUCP

Linux users can install 'slrn' or another news reader and direct it at the appropriate server:

(The website frontend is shared among all users, so if it becomes at all popular it will be unusable.)

That's really fun -- I love the font.

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

new, very interesting podcast on the development and market life of the VIC-20:
http://floppydays.libsyn.com/floppy-day ... an-bagnall

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Another URL for the same thing is http://floppydays.libsyn.com/webpage/2017/01
Next installment, with Michael Tomczyk: http://floppydays.libsyn.com/webpage/2017/03

I have a friend who worked for Commodore in the VIC-20 days. He was a chemical engineer. After that (probably because Commodore moved to Pennsylvania, but I don't know for sure if that was it), he went from one semiconductor company to another, spending a year at one job and then next and the next, always losing his job to business going overseas; so he went back to school and got another degree, in electronics engineering. Today he works for Pacific Gas and Electric as a senior engineer.

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Another one on the VIC-20, an interview with Brian Bagnall, "Commodore: A Company on the Edge":
http://floppydays.libsyn.com/floppy-day ... n-the-edge
or http://floppydays.libsyn.com/webpage/2017/03 (same thing)

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

podcast interview with Neil Harris, Member of the Vic (VIC-20) Commando Team
http://floppydays.libsyn.com/floppy-day ... mando-team

Randy Kindig writes about this podcast,

"This is the final of four consecutive episodes where I talked to gentlemen who were either involved with the development of the historically significant Commodore Vic-20, or who have written books on its history. In this episode Neil Harris is my guest. Neil was a key member of the Vic Commando Team within Commodore, the team that was responsible for the introduction of the Vic-20 and helping it to become the first home computer to sell 1 million units. Neil also later worked for Atari, when the Tramiels left Commodore and purchased Atari from Warner. Neil helps me walk through the history of the Vic through the eyes of someone on the front line. I think you’ll find this interesting."

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

I've recently sparked a huge interest in the VIC-20. I've owned a VIC-20 for years but never really appreciated it until recently. I used to have MY VIC-20 on the Wikipedia page for it because the one I have is near mint in box and I thought it would make for good documentation. But for some reason, those pics are gone.

Anyway, I think the VIC-20 was an underrated computer. My first computer was the TI-99 4/a but shortly after that, I received a C64 as a gift. So actually never knew about the VIC-20 in the day.

There is one gigantic flaw (IMHO) of the VIC-20 and that was the small amount of RAM included with it. However, there's actually a "good" reason for it. With "good" being a relative term.

From what I've read, Tramiel decided to use a bunch of SRAM (static RAM) chips they had in stock. Which was really unusual for a home computer in the early 80's (very early 80's!). So the VIC-20 got what it got.

People also complain about the lack of graphics. Well, for 1980/81, I don't think it looked that bad. It was clearly designed to be a home computer for games and education software. I don't think *anyone* at that time realized just how much computers were in demand.

Something else that gets overlooked is the sound chip in the VIC-20. It's actually pretty good considering. Three square waves and a noise wave can actually produce some good audio. Especially if driven from a RAM expansion card.

What I find amusing in those UUCP posts are people saying to use an OSI Challenger instead.

Oh, and the fact that they called the TRS-80 "TRaSh-80" at such an early date is priceless.

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Cat; the other white meat.

I still have 3 Vic-20 machines... my original from 1982 and two others... the 3rd being the short PCB with different memory chips (2-6116 and 2-2114). The heart of the Vic-20 was the 6560/6561 VIC chip, which handles all timing, video, sound, analogue joysticks and a light pen input. IIRC, I think the chip was mainly intended for arcade machines, but never quite caught on, but I could be wrong. In any case, for doing hardware dev work around the 65(C)02, I prefer the Vic. It's expansion bus is more accessible than the C64 and you have plenty of open memory space to work with and it doesn't have the banked memory to worry about.

I've completely socketed two of the Vics... and replaced all logic chips with CMOS versions along with Rockwell 65C02 CPU and 65C22 VIA chips. The only original chip in the machine is the 6561. You can also replace the 10-2114s and the 74LS138 decode (for the first 8K bank) with a single 6264 RAM chip and dramatically drop the current consumption as well (and have the additional 3KB expansion). I still use my old expansion board from time to time which gives me an additional 1KB memory, a 6551 interface, 8KB RAM/ROM access and some additional I/O decodes on two expansion connectors. So yes... much to appreciate with the old Vic... and you can still find them on eBay for reasonable prices.

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Regards, KM
https://github.com/floobydust

I also have three VIC-20's. I don't know the motherboard revisions off the top of my head. But one of them is the AC version (which I have no PSU for). I've recently bought a user port to breadboard adapter for my VIC-20 (also works with the C64). I plan on doing some fun hardware projects with it.

I like the idea of replacing most of the chips with modern, CMOS versions. In fact, my most recent VIC-20 has many of the chips already socketed. I'm not sure if the original owner did that or not.

I would love some information on your hardware projects you've done with the VIC-20. Do you have any schematics or blogs about them?

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Cat; the other white meat.

You can still get the old Vector 3662 prototyping board from Mouser. This plugs directly into the Bus expansion connector and gives you full access to everything (just about everything). This is the board I used over 30 years ago. The base board has a pair of 2114 chips for 1KB of RAM selected by one of the I/O selects. It also has a 28-pin socket for RAM/ROM at the cartridge select location ($A000), a 6551 and 1488/1489 RS-232 level convertors, a 58167 RTC chip and a 74LS00 (for generating qualified memory read and write signals) and a 74LS138 for decoding the second 1KB I/O select. There are two additional expansion connectors with some of the other lines used for other purposes, like I/O. I also made a few minor changes to the Vic for unused pins and renamed some for the SO pin on the CPU, brought the 9VAC out, etc..

The only thing I've used the USER port for (which is a VIA parallel port) is for a Centronics printer port. I wrote code decades ago which allows a standard parallel printer instead of the Commodore IEC type.

I also built up a diskette controller based on the WD2797 which supports 4 drives and multiple densities, etc., which plugs into the expansion board described above. Unfortunately, it's been over 30 years since I did this... i.e., all schematics were done by hand on graph paper, which I'm not really sure where they are these days... two moves later and many bins in the attic. I am thinking about building a new expansion board for the Vic... a newer RTC chip, more memory, etc., but haven't yet gotten around to it... time is a luxury these days.

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Regards, KM
https://github.com/floobydust

That's amazing that Mouser still sells those! However, I decided to go ahead and buy another adapter. It is the expansion bus adapter for the VIC-20 that goes to a breadboard. I have the same version for the user port. It was $20 after shipping.

Those are some neat expansions you've done. I'd like to try something like that with maybe RAM expansion and some audio IC's.

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Cat; the other white meat.

The display was the most off-putting thing to be regarding the VIC-20. I never gave it any serious consideration for anything. The RAM didn't help, but it was the B I G L E T T E R S that pushed me away early on. In contrast to the crisp monitor of the Pet, or the versatility of the Atari. (yes, I know it was much cheaper)

Same. Not to upset any VIC-20 enthusiasts because there are many delightful VIC-20 projects out there that I love reading about but I just can't bear the 22x23 character matrix. But then I'm planning on spending some time with my Commodore 16 once I get it back, so maybe I can understand early nostalgia after all.

Well, you have to remember where we were at that point. The *VAST* majority of people out there either couldn't afford or couldn't justify the cost of computers like the PET and even the Atari. Remember, this was a world of people that embraced the ZX80. (for the record, I own a Z80...lol).

It's all about what people were used to. A friend of mine (who's much older) told me that when he was a kid, the small town he lived in had a family that got their first TV. It was literally the first TV in the whole town. So he and the other neighborhood kids would go over and just stare at the B/W TV test pattern. Mainly because there weren't many shows aired at the time (and in that location).

I admit, however, that the gigantic font of the VIC-20 can be difficult to deal with. Especially when programming. But it's not so bad when used in games or other software. Software that was designed to not display lots of text, for example. Those large fonts look great as high score tables, etc.




I thought about doing the same. I also own a Commodore 16. In fact, you can see it on the official Wikipedia page (LOL)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore ... 16_001.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore ... 6_002a.png

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Cat; the other white meat.