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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
I thought I'd update this.
I have a prototype run on three boards on order.
I should get them back in about 2 weeks. If all goes
well I should be able to start selling the kits in about a month.
The bare boards ( with EEPROM surface mount soldered on )
will be about $20 to $25.
Other parts will be supplied at addition cost. Most are
easily available except the 6532 that can be had from
ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
Another update.
I've gotten the boards. There are a few non-functional errors
on the debug board. I can fix these on the main run.
Things like opening the solder mask on the back side pads for
the edge connector.
The adapter boards have an issue with a hole size being too small.
I've not yet checked these for function. I need to wait for a friend
to blow some PALs for it.
The quality of the boards themselves is excellent.
I'm having issues with the 44 pin connectors. It seems that some
allow different widths for amount of board continuing past the pins.
The source of connectors I'd planned to use has connectors with too
tight a distance. I'm, about 1/16 inch on the ends, too tight for the KIM-1
board.
Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:38 pm
Posts: 589
Location: Michigan, USA
Please post pictures (grin)...


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
I don't see a way to insert pictures. I don't use an online
picture storage. It only has a way to link a picture.

See pictures at:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.p ... post445184

Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:50 pm
Posts: 3367
Location: Ontario, Canada
Attachment:
IMG_4683.jpg
IMG_4683.jpg [ 91.6 KiB | Viewed 2851 times ]
Attachment:
IMG_4682.jpg
IMG_4682.jpg [ 94.2 KiB | Viewed 2851 times ]
For some reason Vintage Computer Forum won't allow non-members to access images posted there, even though the accompanying text can be viewed. As a VCF member I was able to download the images and post them back here.

The upload process on 6502.org takes some getting used to, and you're not the first person to have trouble, Dwight. Here's a little cheat sheet for anyone who may need it.
Attachment:
attachment uploading.png
attachment uploading.png [ 26.29 KiB | Viewed 2851 times ]

_________________
In 1988 my 65C02 got six new registers and 44 new full-speed instructions!
https://laughtonelectronics.com/Arcana/ ... mmary.html


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
You can see on the debug board where I forgot 3 resistors
for pullups on the DEN, K3 and K4 signals.
On the adapter card, several have suggested 4 layer but that
wouldn't have worked.
As it is, there isn't much room under the 6532 for parts.
If I'd used a 4 layer board, I'd need to shift the pins for the
two different 40 pin sections. That would have taken out another
0.1 inches of routing and component space.
On the next version, I am thinking of moving the ICs to the bottom
board and use the top board for connection rearranging.
I need to space the two boards anyway so the ICs can be the spacing.
It needs some rearranging anyway. I'm not that pleased with how
things fit together. I have the option pads under the PAL. I'd like it
to be in an open space for the 6532s socket.
As soon as I get my PAL programmed I'll put the adapter together.
Still, not to bad for my first PC boards.
The debug board was functional without the pullups but that is a
potential for noise.
The second connector came with my board as the previous owner
( original ) used it for audio and power.
One wonders why MOS put the + and - power on top of each other
where they could easily short. The owner routed the audio cables
between the solder pins for the power and tied them in place.
A good idea to ensure they stay separated.
Dwight

PS, thanks for fixing my post.


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
I thought I'd note that once the KIM-1 is up and running,
the debug board makes a great place to store programs
that one might want to have handy.
I was looking at the First Book of KIM for a bunch of fun
programs to hide in the wasted space, not used for diagnostic.
Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:37 pm
Posts: 1004
dwight wrote:
I don't see a way to insert pictures. I don't use an online
picture storage. It only has a way to link a picture.


You can also use http://tinypic.com to upload pictures and share them via URLs. You don't need an account or anything.


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:38 pm
Posts: 589
Location: Michigan, USA
Lookin' pretty good, Dwight.

Are you still planning to have ROM on the 6530-to-6532 adapter boards?

Cheerful regards, Mike


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
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It has a EEPROM. It can be programmed from the debug board
that has the image of both the -002 and -003.
That is the method I used on the one in the rats nest.
If I didn't make any mistakes on the adapter it should work fine.
Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:38 pm
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Location: Michigan, USA
Oh my goodness, I see that now. You hand soldered all those wires to a little 28-pin SOIC EEPROM. Gosh, that's quite a feat!


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
To make it harder, the pins are folded under, like a plcc.
I could use solder paste and the toaster oven.
I'll try this on the next assembly.
I ran across a problem with KiCad that cause an error on the small
board.
When laying out the board, every now and then, the rats nest just goes
away. The only way to bring it back is to reload it.
That is mostly OK except when you are making the last edit and don't
notice the missing wire.
Pin 2 of the EEPROM was not connected. I made a small wire jumper
but it is something I'll need to watch for in the future.
I didn't finish things over the weekend so didn't get the adapter checked
out. I had the family to deal with and they wanted some of my time.
It was a warm day here in Northern California and they wanted to got
to the beach.
Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
Oh,
I think I misunderstood. You were talking about the wired prototype.
After adding the wires, I used hot glue to strain relief.
If you look carefully near pin1 of the 6532, you'll see another small
glob. That it two surface mount TTL's that are stacked and have
leads.
The hardest part was keeping the wires straight. For that I used a binary
code of short and long bands, that I put on the wires with a sharpie.
Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:00 pm
Posts: 343
Hi

I dont have a Kim (unfortunately, even if I almost bought one in 2015).

Anyway I am interested in a 6532 adapter. If you have a spares, just PM me.


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 Post subject: Re: KIM-1 Debug kit.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:51 pm
Posts: 213
I finally got back to debugging the adapter. I needed to
get past the point of thinking that I did it right when it
obviously didn't work.
I'd used the wrong clock2 phase. It is an easy fix because
it will just be a change in the PAL code.
Here is a picture with my clock wire dangling off to U16.
The adapter is vertical and hides everything under the
6532.
Dwight


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