6502.org Forum  Projects  Code  Documents  Tools  Forum
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:36 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 6:59 pm
Posts: 134
ttlworks wrote:
While looking a bit around in the internet, I accidentally stumbled over the 740 microcontroller family from Renesas.
Anybody familiar with this ?

Attachment:
740_reg.png


Attachment:
740_op.png


Attachment:
rej09b0322_740sm.pdf


Edit: looks like the 740 wasn't mentioned for the first time here in this forum:
http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1212&hilit=740
http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=216&p=1388&hilit=740&sid=608d9d74dba38d77b1d66048818ad33f#p1388


Mitsubishi had a 16 bit series that was backward compatible with the 740, though like most 6502'ish Mitsubishi chips, it was dropped not too long after everything merged into Renesas.

A couple versions of the software manual.
https://ia802504.us.archive.org/1/items ... Manual.pdf
http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/7700sm.pdf

The 7900 series was an oddball, they added the proverbial kitchen sink and remapped the mnemonics to new opcodes, breaking binary compatibility.
https://www.renesas.com/en-sg/doc/produ ... 7900sm.pdf

I've got a few interesting 6502'ish Mitsubishi chips sitting around waiting for me to find the time to play with them.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Posts: 1431
Cray Ze, thanks for providing links to those Mitsubishi manuals.

It's fascinating that Mitsubishi went for a 16 Bit status register
for having IPL2..0 interrupt priority Bits similar to 68k !


In other news, I now remembered that there was a 68070,
but it appears to be only a 68000 based microcontroller from Philips (and no 68060 follow_on).

Another 68k related microcontroller had been the 68328 DragonBall.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Posts: 1431
Looks like there were some more microcontrollers with 6502 or 65816 core...

But it's hard to tell if they still might be in production.
Also, it's hard to get hands on any detailed datasheets.

Attachment:
w55v91.png
w55v91.png [ 44.62 KiB | Viewed 1464 times ]


Attachment:
wt65f1.png
wt65f1.png [ 84.04 KiB | Viewed 1464 times ]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Posts: 1431
HuC6280, the CPU of NEC's PC engine console.

65C02 based core with some additional instructions (including the T flag),
plus 8 Bit parallel I\O, a timer, a sound generator, and a MMU.

Attachment:
huc_mmu.png
huc_mmu.png [ 23.46 KiB | Viewed 1427 times ]


;---

...If there were more 6502 or 68k related CPUs or microcontrollers (and I think there were), I'm not able to dig them out now.
Maybe it would be worth to check if there were 6502\65816 related PDAs or ebook readers in the past. ;)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: England
Calculator, Tamagotchi and Furby not enough for you?! Oh, and photo keyrings.
(We're told that toys are a major category for 6502 applications. I thought I'd read of some electronic dictionary or thesaurus but I'm not sure.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Posts: 1431
Right, I forgot Tamagotchi and Furby.

Speaking of photo keyrings, I wasn't aware of that "6502 versus ARM\MIPS discussion" from 2015 in our forum:
http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3524

Can't remember that there had been something like a commercially available 6502 based calculator in the good old times...
but building a 6502 based calculator might be possible:
http://www.crbond.com/6502.htm
https://hackaday.io/project/7233-6502-graphing-calculator


Image
But when I had made a try back in 1987, I had failed to port the C64 floating point routines to this contraption,
which (by the way) wasn't software compatible to the KIM or the Junior Computer...
Had no assembler, NMOS chips (batteries didn't last for long), etc.
With nowaday's CMOS chips chances for success sure are better. :)

Edit: bottom view (there was another little PCB with a 6522 behind this PCB).
Image

;---

Hmm...
On the other hand, the TI-89 calculator was 68k based.


Last edited by ttlworks on Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: England
Oh, I like that!

Yes, calculators plural as it turns out:
HP-35S uses a Sunplus 6502 relative
Panasonic HHC (OK, a handheld computer rather than a calculator!)

(Edit to fix link rot)


Last edited by BigEd on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 246
Location: The Kettle Moraine
The HP35S actually has the same processor core as the Commodore 128.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: England
Ah, I think that's a mistake, as two different suppliers have used the same part number for very different chips.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8507
Location: Midwestern USA
KC9UDX wrote:
The HP35S actually has the same processor core as the Commodore 128.

Not the case. The part number is just coincidental.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 246
Location: The Kettle Moraine
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
KC9UDX wrote:
The HP35S actually has the same processor core as the Commodore 128.

Not the case. The part number is just coincidental.


The part number in the 35S is SPLB31A.

Naturally, I can't find it anymore because the WWW is now cluttered with pages saying that the 35S is based on the C64.

But when the 35S was first announced, there was an article describing how Sunplus had somehow acquired the mask for the 8502, the CMOS version of the 6510, and used it, along with some RAM and peripheral support, in the SPLB31A.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: England
Previously: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2230


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Posts: 1431
Wow, that Panasonic HHC looks pretty impressive from the inside.

From what I have seen in the internet, it appears that the HP-35S
wasn't invented for running 6502 machine code from the "end user"...

Considering the DTMF generator inside the W65C265 microcontroller,
we could assume that quite a few 6502\65816 cores went into
push button telephones, modems or fax machines maybe...
This probably had changed when phone lines had turned from analog to ISDN.

;---

I'm now starting to wonder, if the 6502 was used in hobby robotics.
The 68332 certainly was.

Hmm... robotics... reminds me to this interview:
When Chuck Peddle was asked if he might be an evil genius because he invented the 6502
(since "Bender" and "Terminator" also seem to be 6502 related),
he just stated that the 6502 went into nearly every piece of medical equipment. :lol:

Edit:
Found a 65C02 related hobby robotic project from 2014:
https://hackaday.io/project/2216-6502sbc-robot
http://www.appliedcarbon.org/6502sbc.html


Last edited by ttlworks on Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: England
ttlworks wrote:
I'm now starting to wonder, if the 6502 was used in hobby robotics.

In 1984, $660 got you a 6502-based Scorpion kit from Rhino Robots - see
https://archive.org/stream/RoboticsAge1 ... 6/mode/1up


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 65C816 vs 68000
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:54 pm
Posts: 1431
Thanks for the link, BigEd.
Scorpion looks nice: robust casing, and all the chips (DIP package)
are easily accessible to the end user... for some creative tinkering maybe.


What also looked interesting was that advertisement on page 14:
VOREC, 65C02 based voice recognition board for the HERO-I,
Recognition ratio about 98%.

Now that's impressive, I think that implementing something like that
ain't easy on a 65C02.

In that time frame, your best bet for implementing voice recognition
probably was the TMS32010 DSP from TI...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: