(There's a conversation about the varying rules for shielding at that time here:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/inde ... 45610.html
It was a time of change, possibly in part because the VCR market was coming into existence.)

A computer PC board with no ground plane radiates a lot of noise, and they didn't want that getting into people's radios and TVs. The regulations were tighter for home use than for industrial or office or mobile. If you have a ground plane, any given signal line's return current runs through the ground plane directly under that trace, taking the shape of that trace, and the two equal currents running in opposite directions cancel out so there's no radiation.


I think that started with matters of fire and shock hazard, but went further when switching supplies became common, as they didn't want the radiated noise from those either.

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Too bad the ColecoVision didn't get a switching power supply. That PSU is the size of my old Buick Skylark.

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Cat; the other white meat.

You know, I thought I did, but a check of my attic only yielded a Franklin Ace and a //e. Back in the early 90s, I was moving around a lot. It's all a bit hazy, but I think I can remember selling my ][+ to an acquaintance, along with an old solid-state Pioneer home stereo. That's probably how I lost my 65c802 ... it was in the ][+! (stupid, stupid, stupid ...)

Mike B.

And now the II+ variants are suddenly getting pretty high prices on ebay too.. but as I'm not a 'collector' collector (I don't understand how their minds work either), I'm more interested in a //e or a Platinium, or even a GS, which aren't, in principle, out of range yet (what I do have is a clone, with 64K RAM).

Interested in selling the Franklin Ace?

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Cat; the other white meat.

Tor, talk to this guy

Not sure I understood that.. what I meant was that when I collect old computers, it's as a computer user, unlike those people (those I call 'collector' collectors) who pay insane amounts for one of those Apple II computers with unvented cases, just because they're 'rare', while in reality they're bad, the unvented cases were an early mistake which was rectified. But if they only want them to be displayed, never used, or worse, just being an 'investment' object to be sold to other 'collector' collectors.. that's the mentality I don't get. I also despise when people buy especially good music instruments, e.g. extra good famous guitars in perfect condition, only for having them on a wall or in a display to show off. What a waste.

So, I'm not really interested in, say, a rev. 0 Apple II, I would rather have one with some of the fixes applied, i.e. a later rev. And I'm also of the opinion that Grant Stockly's fantastic reproductions of the Altair 8800 and 680 computers are more interesting than the originals, in that they're exactly the same, except for using safer and better switch-mode power supplies and improved solder masks. And some better capacitors. (http://altairkit.com/). So, I would rather have one of those than an old fragile seventies original (and I nearly bought a kit the last time they came around, but was unfortunately low on funds at just that moment). Starting to think of these computers as investment objects for my pension.. that just takes away some of the magic. I'll rather save a bit every month instead, the "normal" way.

@Tor

I pretty much agree with what you're saying. I'm not sure how I would be categorized, but I am definitely a collector. For me, I love having as many variations as possible. Like, I have a couple ][e's and a Platinum ][e. Not a huge difference but one is Platinum.

*HOWEVER*, I don't pay the huge prices like you mention. I've been collecting for over 20 years and the single most I have ever paid for one computer was around the $250 mark. I've done that 2-3 times. One time it was for a boxed Amiga 600HD, another was a near mint boxed Coleco ADAM.

I have different reasons why I collect. Sometimes I just want extra units in case some of my favorites die. Sometimes I buy computers that no one really wanted like my Mattel Aquarius in box (that I paid <$50 for years ago). Sometimes, I see a deal and snatch it like my Amiga 2000 I got for $75 years ago. Etc.

The reason I want the Franklin Ace is because I don't own one. But the BIGGER reason is because I saw one at Sears when I was a kid. At the time, I really had no idea what it was. But I was AMAZED at it. I'm from a small town where Camaro's outnumber computers 500:1. So nostalgia is a huge motivator for me.

Finally, I love buying broken computers and making them work again.

But I totally agree that paying ridiculous fees for slight variations is silly. It's like the ][+ or ][ (not ][e). I wan't both of those badly. But I refuse to pay the fee.

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Cat; the other white meat.

@cbmeeks

I think we're basically on the same page. I'm looking for computers I used when I was young, and those I wanted but could not afford (say, a BBC B). I used Apple II computers at work, and clones. There was a great clone with 128K and a Z80 (6502+Z80, could run both Apple DOS, USCD-P, or CP/M-Plus (aka CP/M-3), the Basis-108. Just slipped away under my nose when they were disposed of from my old workplace. And I did some programming on a friend's Dragon 32 (TRS-80 Color Computer clone), so if I could find a CoCo3 I might buy it. The 6809 is a great CPU.

But time has passed, and with that, decades of working in a much richer computing environment, e.g. Unix workstations. It's not actually easy to go back to basics and fiddle around with those very limited monitors and 2K and BASIC (which I don't actually want to touch, ever again, to be honest - I never actually used BASIC when I worked with Apple II computers. Only Pascal and assembly. I enjoyed 6502 programming). So I tend to gravitate to, for example, Z80 systems with enough RAM to run CP/M. CP/M-3 if possible. And most of all I want to get my hands on the minicomputers I worked with from around 1982 - they have an operating system I can still feel comfortable in, after all these years. And if I get a CoCo3 at some point, I would add memory and run Flex or one of the other operating systems available, not BASIC (I did enough of that on the Dragon-32, that's where I truly saw the limitations of the language).

My collection is a bit limited. I have an old Nascom-1 (I bought it back when it was new, as a kit), and an old British almost-clone PC, I think it was called Advance (it's in storage right now). An Apple II semi-clone (somewhere between a II+ and IIe). A 68k home-built setup, a bit limited on RAM. A couple of 8" Shugart drives. An IBM PS/2 model 35. An Olivetti M700 (MIPS R4000 CPU), a bunch of SGI O2 computers, one O2+, a couple of Indys, and, at work, one or two Octanes and a Fuel which I can take as soon as I find room for them. Oh, and a terribly heavy CCT drive, in perfect condition, sitting in my garage at the moment. It was never actually used operationally, it was only there in case some old tapes came by (that system had moved to exabytes by then). So it's as-new. I connected it to an Octane to read all my old 9-track CCT tapes from the old minicomputers, a few years back.

(I was just thinking today if I should build a computer shed in the garden, to be ready for the hypothetical case of finding one of those minis.. I could put a rack in there.)

Same here.



I own a CoCo3 that is nearly mint in a nearly mint box. Manuals and everything. Very interesting computer.

The Dragon 32 is on my radar! It's not the best computer out there but there is just something about it that makes me want one. Maybe because it's a "dragon".




That's where our use-cases differ. I enjoy the "punishment" of tapping away on my 1K ZX81. lol. My biggest use is games and playing the games I never could afford back in the day. I also enjoy 6502 programming and would like to branch out into Z80 programming because ColecoVision is a favorite of mine. So is the TI but that is another processor. Not enough time to learn them all I suppose.



That's an interesting collection. I had a Irix (spelling?) years ago. Gigantic tower that was given to me. When I moved in with my fiancee, it became missing. I was tossing some stuff and I think it was stolen or tossed by mistake. I lost several computers then. I personally think my neighbor had sticky fingers. :-/



Ugh...storage is a huge problem when you have around 70 computers. I honestly don't know how many I have. I need to inventory them.

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Cat; the other white meat.

However many you have, don't let anyone tell you it's too many! (I'm in the camp of accidentally accumulating "interesting" machines at a low rate, never spending much.)

No chance of that. They can tell me all they want. I just choose to ignore it. hehe

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Cat; the other white meat.

I have several Apple II's (e's and pluses, I think), floppy-disc drives, mice, loads of manuals and other books, software, etc.. There's a man who wants them but he has not been able to come get them and I've waited for a year and a half. If I decide I'm tired of waiting for him, I'd like to find another good home for them. They have too big a place in computer history to just take them to E-waste. I'm in Southern California. I could ship them, but my trouble to get them packed up, plus the shipping expense, would suggest local pick-up or delivery would be best. If someone is interested, please PM me, and I'll keep your info for whenever I decide the other man will not come through—which may be soon.

We got some of this inventory when the elementary school my wife teaches at, and which our two kids graduated from, was throwing it out years ago, and more when a friend had moved on and figured he'd never use the Apple II again. The school got rid of a lot of C64's and accompanying things at about the same time, and we had a lot of those too, but they now have another home with someone who values and pampers them. Our kids did use these computers for a while at home, and one of them bought a few more accessories for them at an electronics swap meet.

I'm not a collector, but I still use my 1980's HP-41cx calculator/computer every day because of its practical value (in some ways, no other model since then has matched it), and occasionally my HP-71 hand-held computer from the same era. I have a beat-up HP-75 computer someone gave me but I never got familiar with it to put it to use. I had a technician many years ago who had a surplused minicomputer at home, but I've lost contact with him. I do enjoy watching YouTube videos on computer history.


I'm a cyclist too, and on the cycling forums, many are of the opinion that the correct number of bikes to have is N+1, where N is the number you have now.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

@GARTHWILSON

I sent a PM but it's setting in my OUTBOX. Did you get it?

Does anyone know how to make the PM actually deliver? I don't see it in the sent items.

Thanks

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Cat; the other white meat.