Someone mentioned BYTE and Zaks? Yes, good start! Welcome, jds. I didn't have to wait that long for my Zaks book, I believe I found it in a shop in Tottenham Court Road in London back then (the suitcase I brought home was very heavy after that visit.. paper isn't paper-light, as it turns out).
I still have the book btw. It's still a good read.

Still got my copy too, another good book was "From chips to systems", I learnt a lot from that one as well.



Thanks for the welcome, I will write up the few things I've done so far as I think some of it is generally interesting. There was a discussion about using a CPLD as a boot ROM and I've done that now, I still need to write the code for a second stage boot from the serial port though. I'm not exactly sure how much code I can get in the CPLD as it tends to run out of space quite easily but if you let it remap the pins then you get more, but then I have to rewire the breadboard which is quite a hassle. The other thing, which I mentioned, was using a 1.8432 MHz oscillator as an external clock for the 65C52 to get it working at 115,200.

Hello Everyone,

The project I am working on recently popped up on this forum so I thought it would be good to introduce myself. I am a child of the 80s. I was born in 1982 and I grew up with both the Commodore 64 and Vic 20. I also spent a gazillion hours playing Nintendo. When I was around 10 or so my Grandfather introduced me to BASIC and I have been programming ever since. Out of high school I became an intern at an aerospace company and was exposed to electronics. I majored in Computer Engineering at UCSB, I was in the 2nd graduating class of that major. The hardware classes were some of the most fun I have ever had. In one class I breadboard'd a working 4-bit processor. I used off the shelf ALU chips and implemented all the control logic in an FPGA, but it was still a major accomplishment for myself. The entire design was up to us.

While in college that aerospace company had spun out a separate software company and I have been there ever since, but I have always had a hardware bug in the back of my mind. Several months ago I read an article about this guy who had hacked the Tamagotchi which turns out ran a 6502 http://spritesmods.com/?art=tamasingularity. I thought that project was pretty cool and I then started to read a bit more about the processor. One thing led to another and I started to build my own 6502 project https://hackaday.io/project/9325-dodo-6502-homebrew-game-system. This project has taken me full circle as I spent much of my childhood unknowingly playing with 6502 systems.

-Peter

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My 6502 Game System: https://hackaday.io/project/9325-dodo-6502-homebrew-game-system

Hey everyone.

I make videogames. Not what "the industry" is calling games nowadays, so-called "multimedia experiences" and whatnot; garbage from my point of view. I mean the real kind, the way that it used to be and that it should be now, with all this even greater technology: Correct hardware games. I'm currently considering hardware options for my next work, and in-between the thinking process I came across this forum, so I thought I'd say 'hey'.
I've found very useful information here already, thank you for your help, you know who you are.

So, in the meantime, why not share something back?
For this 'short time', I'm ready to program anyone's hardware system with a nice quick little game, if you're really up for it. Maybe you want to see what your system's really about. I wouldn't mind it.

Contrary to what some people believe, there's more to making a good videogame
than just programming a computer system or designing hardware. A bunch of opcodes banded together
is not quite what machine language programming is all about.


As soon as I get busy with my next project, if I haven't started anything here already with any of you guys,
this proposal is withdrawn without notice, just so you know.

I won't try to say much about myself except what I already posted before, and I'll add to it that
I'm quite sure that I should be able to work on any kind of system if the 'sense' of it is around, if you know what I mean.

Cheers.

@pnoyes: Nice work on the Dodo, Peter!

@jsii: I totally know what you mean about the way games used to be, and I always gravitate toward them as well. Even though my poor reflexes never allowed me to excel at any of them, I have a genuine appreciation for the way the programmers of the 8-bit "classics" were able to achieve the proper playability with whatever hardware resources they had available ... it's an art as much as it is a skill, no doubt, and it would be a shame to lose this art form, in the jet wash of all the multi-MIPS monsters of today.

Both of you should consider starting your own threads here, where you can share more details about where you've been and where you're headed.

Mike B.

Thank you very much, Mike.
I wouldn't mind starting a thread; I probably wouldn't do it just now because
I like results along with thoughts. As soon as I have anything to show/share,
I'll keep in mind the possibility of making a thread. Another reason for not
starting it right off is that a good thread should be 'maintained' properly,
and that in itself is a mind-involving skill.

With regard to your reflexes and from my point of view,
if you enjoyed playing the games then 'the condition was met'
and you are also 'right there' with it and are a good part of it.
In other words, the game achieved [part of] its purpose
and you are part of that achievement; something very good for you.

Machine language programming, beyond a certain degree of excellence, is an art form
and then far more. The same can be said of electronics creation and also of games.

Just as anyone can grab a brush and put colors on a canvas and call it 'a painting',
many people can logically tie electronics parts together to achieve a result, or put opcodes
together to get some work done from a microprocessor, or write some lines of 'code'
and call it 'a game'. But none of those actions imply excellence or more, or what I call
'a satisfactory degree of achievement' for the work; they just point to working 'mechanisms'.

I have learned that the essence of a good electronics design is not in the schematics itself
or just in the finished creation; it's particularly also 'between the lines' of the schematics
and beyond the layout of the hardware (if anyone can get the meaning of it).
A similar concept applies to machine language programming and also to games.

Videogames today are abysmally inferior to those from the past because they lack 'something'
that technology alone simply cannot provide. You can say the same for electronics and for
programming in general, despite the breakthroughs and the improvements.

The artist is willing to go with the art, and the reward of color is color itself.
As long as the essence is there, the game will be there.
I'm headed for the [next] good game.

6502 persists because it still exists without corruption. Its principles remain true.
I see that you (people here as a group) have a good 'thing' happening now. I see possibility.
In my opinion and observation it seems close to art, from a hardware design point of view.
I hope you can avoid 'the loop' and actually achieve persistence
for yourselves.

Thank you again, Mike.

Hi everyone,

I am probably the youngest person on this forum (I was born in 2000, which is odd as it means that the 6502 was created in an entirely different millennium than I). I have always had an interest in electronics and computers (my parents are retired EE and CS majors) and have always wanted to build a microcomputer of my own.

I started looking around on the web for microcomputer designs to draw inspiration from when I stumbled upon Mr. Grappendorf's wonderful website (which lead me to this site) and Mr. Wilson's 6502 primer. I have been reading around on the forum for a couple of months off and on and recently decided that I would make an account and start my own 6502 based computer.

I am looking forward to becoming a part of the community, learning about the 65xx family of devices, and *hopefully* getting some other people in my EE class at school interested in designing their own SBC microcomputers.

- Billy

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- Billy

Welcome! You can learn a lot from bottom-up implementation, whether software or hardware, so it's a good idea to try to get some group activity going.

Thanks! I totally agree, the issue for me will probably lie in convincing the people in my CS class to learn assembly (it is a substantial leap from high level languages such as Java and Python to assembly or even C). I have already spoken to a few people in my EE class and they seem quite interested (there is even discussion of forming an extracurricular club devoted to the construction of a microcomputer).

_________________
- Billy

Two resources to consider: the easy6502 website, and the nand2tetris course/book/website.

Welcome!


You were indeed created in the same millennium as the 6502. In ordinal date reckoning, millennia begin on odd-number years, as do centuries. This is because the proleptic Gregorian calendar started on January 1, 0001 CE (AD). Hence, the third millennium commenced on January 1 00:00:00 UTC 2001.


Well, if you want to build a 65C02 or 65C816 contraption you've come to the right place. I wouldn't be surprised if your folks were to get interested in it as well. If nothing else, they should be able to help you out if you get stuck on something.


There are a lot of resources around here to help you along. Also, don't be shy about asking questions if you are unable to find what you need or can't figure out something. We always have answers, sometimes more than you might want.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

I can't decide whether I should be happy that I was born in the same millennium as the 6502 or sad that I didn't know that millennium began on odd years.

Thanks for the welcome! I apologize in advance for the many dumb questions I will no doubt ask .

- Billy

_________________
- Billy

Years ago, a writer whose name escapes me once penned a diatribe in Transactor magazine in which he opined that the proper way to teach programming is from the bottom up, that is, starting at machine code. His rationale was that if programmers start out using high level languages they become accustomed to "something else" doing the dirty work of memory management, resource utilization, file access, etc., and thus don't learn how to get the most out of the system.

Continuing with that theory, if one is forced to start at the bottom level, that is, at or near the bare metal, one will develop much better programming skills and when one does finally get to use the high level compiler or interpreter, he or she will have developed the discipline that is needed to produce high performance programs that are economical of resource usage and free of bugs. Hence the recommendation that aspiring programmers start by learning the assembly language of the machine for which they are writing code.

Whether all that is true or not can be a source of endless debate. Speaking as one who has been monkeying with computers since before the existence of C, I tend to believe it to be true. This would be a good topic to bring up in your CS class, as you may find the resulting opinions (especially those of the teacher) to be enlightening.

In any case, I don't consider Python to be a real programming language—more like something developed for use by script kiddies who are pretending to be programmers, and who wouldn't know a device register from a toilet seat. This opinion, of course, is coming from someone who started out by writing machine code to run on Post Office ZIP mail translators, and who didn't even know a high level language for the first 10 years of his computer career. So I guess that would make me a crusty computer curmudgeon.

Assuming you do build your own 65xx computer, you will initially be faced with having to write (or adapt) software to run it, and the overwhelming likelihood is that that software will have to be developed in assembly language. Fortunately, the 6502 microprocessor family is arguably the most documented one ever, so enormous resources exist to help you along. All you'll need is an editor, assembler and a copy of the Eyes and Lichty programming manual.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

Confusion about when millennia begin and end has existed for...er...millenia. Popular (and incorrect) opinion is that the third millennium started at midnight January 1, 2000...as did the 21st century.


Way back when I was in the military, an often-heard aphorism was that dumb questions were much easier to deal with than dumb mistakes. A question is never dumb if one truly doesn't know the answer and has made a reasonable attempt to find the answer. In regard to seeking an answer it's often helpful to visit your favorite search engine (I use Ixquick) and read between the results lines.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

I started programming when my school was sending of coding form in Algol
to the local University.

Then a friend got a Sinclair MK14.
Then he got an Acorn System 1.
Then the school got a PET 2001, which we learnt to program on.

I will never forget the PET revealed, and learnt
that the Pet could also do machine-code,
so we wrote an assembler,dis-assembler.

Golden days...

BugBear