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 Post subject: Re: 65c02 SBC woes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:03 pm 
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floobydust wrote:
Looking back at the OP's schematic, he's using the 74HC138 chip select output to drive negative chip selects for both the 65C22 and the RAM chip, which is normal. He's also using the same 74HC138 chip select outputs via a 74HC10 gate section with all inputs tied together to form an inverter to drive the positive chip selects on the 6522 and RAM chips. Basically, it's a wasted pair of gates and adds some unnecessary delay in the memory and I/O selects. It would be advisable to simply tie those selects to +5V and free up a couple gates.

Also, it appears that he's not selecting the 74HC138 properly. Looking at the datasheets for the 138 and 688 chips, the $FE page select from the 688 chip goes low when active. He has that to an active high input on the 138, so the I/O selects are active for everything but what he wants. Suggest tying the 688 output select (pin 19) to the 138 input select at pin 4 and then tying pin 6 (of the 138) to +5V.


I think that was the problem. I connected pin 6 of the '138 to +5v and connected pin 19 of the '688 to pin 4 of the '138, and it seems to work now! :D

Thank you everyone for the help. Next time I build one of these things, I think I'll spend more time error-checking before I build it...


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 Post subject: Re: 65c02 SBC woes
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:58 pm 
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Mercury1964 wrote:
...I connected pin 6 of the '138 to +5v and connected pin 19 of the '688 to pin 4 of the '138, and it seems to work now! :D

Thank you everyone for the help. Next time I build one of these things, I think I'll spend more time error-checking before I build it...

Glad to hear that it is working!

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 Post subject: Re: 65c02 SBC woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:39 pm 
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Dr Jefyll wrote:
BigEd wrote:
some multimeters have a frequency counting mode - all else being equal, get one of those, and you can see the frequency of signals such as Sync, RnW, chip selects, interrupts and so on. That can tell you a lot.
I'm not sure I agree about the value of frequency counting mode, as I suspect there's a threat of its results being misinterpreted. Its intended function is to determine the frequency of a periodic signal. But I suppose it could be used to determine the mere presence or absence of any sort of pulse train (periodic or otherwise) -- is that what you meant?

Yes, I'm thinking that if you had no other source of information, the pulses-per-second on your ROM's chip select, or your IRQ input, or perhaps on A8, will tell you something about where code is executing, whether interrupts are occurring as you expect, or what stack activity is going on - all depending of course on how carefully you've constructed your test code.


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 Post subject: Re: 65c02 SBC woes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:22 pm 
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BigEd wrote:
Yes, I'm thinking that if you had no other source of information [...]
Alright, you're not giving this a strong recommendation, so in that sense we agree. I guess what bothers me about frequency counting mode is that its specification may vary drastically from one multimeter to another. Even the dumbest meter will probably respond satisfactorily when used for audio and mains-frequency work. In that realm one can assume the wave being measured cycles above and below zero (ie; no DC offset), is periodic and doesn't have a duty cycle approaching 0 or 100%. But with digital waveforms any of those assumptions could prove false.

Some manufacturers will design their products to perform beyond the lowest common denominator and others won't. To know the difference the user would have to have access to the specs and have studied them to understand what they imply. For an experienced person that's perhaps acceptable but I'd certainly be cautious about suggesting frequency counting mode to a novice.

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 Post subject: Re: 65c02 SBC woes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:45 pm 
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OK, I see your concern - you wonder if a frequency readout from a multimeter will or won't be able to count arbitrary edges at say a 1MHz or 2MHz rate. All I can say is that mine seems to work!

Less controversially, perhaps, I'd also recommend choosing a model with an audible continuity test - it's a lot easier to walk your probes around the circuit keeping an ear out for beeps than to keep looking from circuit to display and back.


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 Post subject: Re: 65c02 SBC woes
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:59 am 
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Logic probes are inexpensive and in my not-totally-unbiased opinion, are superior to other test devices for the sort of digital troubleshooting hobbyists would be likely to do. That isn't to say that a DVM doesn't have a place. However, its ability to detect a very short duration, high-frequency pulse, say, what one might see on the RWB output of the MPU, which usually lasts no more than 1-1/2 clock cycles, is quite limited. Any logic probe worthy of the name will be able to see such a pulse and produce a positive indication of its presence.

After a logic probe, I would reach for a 'scope if I suspected that signal quality was contributing to whatever problem was being observed. However, when I was trying to figure out why instructions such as STA UART,X were failing in POC V 1.0, I only needed my logic probe to come to a determination. I did observe signals on the 'scope after I had decided I knew what was causing the problem, but only for curiosity's sake.

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