6502.org Forum  Projects  Code  Documents  Tools  Forum
It is currently Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:42 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 87
Location: San Diego
I call it a pound or pound sign when the symbol is used alone.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:28 pm
Posts: 10938
Location: England
Of course no-one in the UK could possibly do that! A £ is a £.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:55 am
Posts: 996
Location: Berkshire, UK
I have never heard of the word "octothorpe" either.

When I programmed in C/C++ (from 1984 onwards) we always referred to #include and #define as 'hash include' and 'hash define'.

As a Brit I reserved the word for 'pound' for imperial weights and the '£' character.

_________________
Andrew Jacobs
6502 & PIC Stuff - http://www.obelisk.me.uk/
Cross-Platform 6502/65C02/65816 Macro Assembler - http://www.obelisk.me.uk/dev65/
Open Source Projects - https://github.com/andrew-jacobs


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 87
Location: San Diego
BigEd wrote:
Of course no-one in the UK could possibly do that! A £ is a £.

Right, I have used Pound ever since Touch-Tone Phones were introduced in the 1970's.
(Keys 0-9 and * = Star and # = Pound)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8387
Location: Midwestern USA
GARTHWILSON wrote:
I have never heard of the word "octothorpe." The Forth number-conversion words <# # #S and #> are pronounced "less-sharp," "sharp," "sharp-ess," and "sharp-greater" though.

Of course, referring to # as a sharp isn't etymologically correct. The musical symbol's vertical lines are truly vertical and the "horizontal" lines aren't.

BTW, when used in the context of telephony, the * symbol is referred to as a sextile, not an asterisk.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8510
Location: Southern California
Quote:
BTW, when used in the context of telephony, the * symbol is referred to as a sextile, not an asterisk.

The Forth words * UM* M* and M*/ are pronounced "star," "you-emm-star," "emm-star," and "emm-star-slash" :lol: (and there are others). These are for single-precision multiply, unsigned mixed-precision multiply (ie, with a double-precision product), signed mixed-precision multiply, and take three single-precision numbers and multiply the first by the second to get a double-precision intermediate result and then divide it by the third number and get a single-precision final result.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8387
Location: Midwestern USA
clockpulse wrote:
BigEd wrote:
Of course no-one in the UK could possibly do that! A £ is a £.

Right, I have used Pound ever since Touch-Tone Phones were introduced in the 1970's.
(Keys 0-9 and * = Star and # = Pound)

Historical note: DTMF (Touch-Tone®) dialed phones appeared in the early 1960s in some parts of the USA. # and * (called "sextile")weren't part of the original DTMF keypad layout (I have such a phone here), however the octothorpe and sextile DTMF pairs (as well as others) were assigned for use as control signals in future CO switch designs. Tone signaling was already in use through some inter-LATA trunk exchanges, so DTMF was established well before the 1970s.

In the early 1970s, Western Electric placed their Centrex III® switches into service in COs that served business subscribers (Centrex had been developed in the mid-1960s). Centrex switches utilized octothorpe and sextile DTMF pairs to control various features, such as "follow me" and call-forwarding. Subscribers who purchased Centrex services were given phones whose keypads included # and *. Centrex is still in use today, though not at the level it was in the 1970s and 1980s.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8387
Location: Midwestern USA
GARTHWILSON wrote:
Quote:
BTW, when used in the context of telephony, the * symbol is referred to as a sextile, not an asterisk.

The Forth words * UM* M* and M*/ are pronounced "star," "you-emm-star," "emm-star," and "emm-star-slash" :lol: (and there are others). These are for single-precision multiply, unsigned mixed-precision multiply (ie, with a double-precision product), signed mixed-precision multiply, and take three single-precision numbers and multiply the first by the second to get a double-precision intermediate result and then divide it by the third number and get a single-precision final result.

In typesetting, a / is often referred to as a virgule. :lol:

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:41 pm
Posts: 87
Location: San Diego
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Historical note: DTMF (Touch-Tone®) dialed phones appeared in the early 1960s in some parts of the USA. # and * (called "sextile")weren't part of the original DTMF keypad layout (I have such a phone here), however the octothorpe and sextile DTMF pairs (as well as others) were assigned for use as control signals in future CO switch designs. Tone signaling was already in use through some inter-LATA trunk exchanges, so DTMF was established well before the 1970s.

I should have said that the overwhelming majority of central offices were converted to DTMF dialing in the 1970's. For trunk signalling they used MF which were frequencies starting at 700hz thru 1700hz spaced at 200hz intervals. It also involved 2600hz for clearing/disconnecting the trunk. (blue box frequencies :lol: )
I used to have a DTMF keypad that was used in some Government Phones that had 16 buttons (an extra column on the right). The right column was (FO, F, I, P) that's Flash Overide, Flash, Interrupt and Priorty.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 899
A quick note: * in many character sets (such as this one) is often not the correct telephony symbol. As the name implies, it is supposted to have six projections...

I was often amused by the name 'sextile' as a young man. Especially when the phone company literature insisted that it was 'reserved for future applications'. I was easily amused then. :)

_________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ...Jan van de Snepscheut


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8387
Location: Midwestern USA
clockpulse wrote:
I used to have a DTMF keypad that was used in some Government Phones that had 16 buttons (an extra column on the right). The right column was (FO, F, I, P) that's Flash Overide, Flash, Interrupt and Priorty.

I recall see a 16-key pad on a phone in the late 1960s (1968?) that had A, B, C and D. The FO... scheme didn't seem to be used outside of some government applications. DTMF decoders still recognize those keys, but I have no idea at this time what they would do if the pairs were sent.

As for "blue boxes,"... :lol:

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8387
Location: Midwestern USA
BTW, we have gotten sooooo far off-topic here...

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:56 am
Posts: 395
Location: Minnesota
Yes...so, anyway, here's a little test program regarding unacceptable uses of ASSERT, not completely exhaustive:

Code:
; Hobby Cross-Assembler Error Test 008g
; Messages\Assert Messages
; error: failures detected on first pass (BDD1)

; by Anton Treuenfels

; first created: 08/28/13
; last revised:  08/28/13

; warning(s): 1

; error(s): 6

; fatal: 0

; -------------------------------

        .listfile
        .errfile

; -------------------------------

        .cpu    "T_16_L"    ; required psop
        .org    $1000       ; required psop

; -------------------------------

assert            ; try to make it a label

assert   .bit16   $1000      ; try to make it a label

assert   =   $1000      ; try to assign a value

assert  .macro         ; try to make it a macro name
   .endmacro      ; (empty)

   .macro assert      ; try to make it a macro name
   .endmacro            

; -------------------------------

        .end


and here's the error file created:

Code:
; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0029:  assert    ; try to make it a label
; - Unexpected blank field

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0031:  assert .bit16 $1000  ; try to make it a label
; - Expecting operand: <.bit16 $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0033:  assert = $1000  ; try to assign a value
; - Expecting operand: <= $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0035:  assert  .macro   ; try to make it a macro name
; - Expecting operand: <.macro>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0036:   .endmacro  ; (empty)
; - Matching block structure not found

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0038:   .macro assert  ; try to make it a macro name
; - Name already in use: <ASSERT>

; >>>>>  Warning in TEST008G.A
; 0039:   .endmacro     
; - Definition ignored

1 Warnings detected
6 Errors detected


and I used to think that was pretty good. But now I wondering if something like this might be even better:

Code:
; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0029:  assert    ; try to make it a label
; - Unexpected blank field

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0031:  assert .bit16 $1000  ; try to make it a label
; - Expecting operand: <.bit16 $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0033:  assert = $1000  ; try to assign a value
; - Expecting operand: <= $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0035:  assert  .macro   ; try to make it a macro name
; - Expecting operand: <.macro>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ENDMACRO>
; 0036:   .endmacro  ; (empty)
; - Matching block structure not found

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <MACRO>
; 0038:   .macro assert  ; try to make it a macro name
; - Built-in symbol, pseudo opcode, mnemonic or function name: <ASSERT>

; >>>>>  Warning in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ENDMACRO>
; 0039:   .endmacro     
; - Definition ignored

1 Warnings detected
6 Errors detected


I don't think it would cost too much to add the 'while' line in terms of code or execution time, which would provide a clue as to what the assembler thinks is going on (processing pseudo op, instruction mnemonic, or user macro). And when a name conflict occurs it's certainly possible to distinguish between a built-in and a user-defined one.

This is what BDD has done to me :? He's got me all worried about that poor programmer who can't for the life of him figure out why his utterly reasonable code won't work.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: