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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:42 pm 
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I call it a pound or pound sign when the symbol is used alone.


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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Of course no-one in the UK could possibly do that! A £ is a £.


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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:16 pm 
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I have never heard of the word "octothorpe" either.

When I programmed in C/C++ (from 1984 onwards) we always referred to #include and #define as 'hash include' and 'hash define'.

As a Brit I reserved the word for 'pound' for imperial weights and the '£' character.

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:12 am 
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BigEd wrote:
Of course no-one in the UK could possibly do that! A £ is a £.

Right, I have used Pound ever since Touch-Tone Phones were introduced in the 1970's.
(Keys 0-9 and * = Star and # = Pound)


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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:22 am 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:
I have never heard of the word "octothorpe." The Forth number-conversion words <# # #S and #> are pronounced "less-sharp," "sharp," "sharp-ess," and "sharp-greater" though.

Of course, referring to # as a sharp isn't etymologically correct. The musical symbol's vertical lines are truly vertical and the "horizontal" lines aren't.

BTW, when used in the context of telephony, the * symbol is referred to as a sextile, not an asterisk.

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:41 am 
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Quote:
BTW, when used in the context of telephony, the * symbol is referred to as a sextile, not an asterisk.

The Forth words * UM* M* and M*/ are pronounced "star," "you-emm-star," "emm-star," and "emm-star-slash" :lol: (and there are others). These are for single-precision multiply, unsigned mixed-precision multiply (ie, with a double-precision product), signed mixed-precision multiply, and take three single-precision numbers and multiply the first by the second to get a double-precision intermediate result and then divide it by the third number and get a single-precision final result.

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:47 am 
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clockpulse wrote:
BigEd wrote:
Of course no-one in the UK could possibly do that! A £ is a £.

Right, I have used Pound ever since Touch-Tone Phones were introduced in the 1970's.
(Keys 0-9 and * = Star and # = Pound)

Historical note: DTMF (Touch-Tone®) dialed phones appeared in the early 1960s in some parts of the USA. # and * (called "sextile")weren't part of the original DTMF keypad layout (I have such a phone here), however the octothorpe and sextile DTMF pairs (as well as others) were assigned for use as control signals in future CO switch designs. Tone signaling was already in use through some inter-LATA trunk exchanges, so DTMF was established well before the 1970s.

In the early 1970s, Western Electric placed their Centrex III® switches into service in COs that served business subscribers (Centrex had been developed in the mid-1960s). Centrex switches utilized octothorpe and sextile DTMF pairs to control various features, such as "follow me" and call-forwarding. Subscribers who purchased Centrex services were given phones whose keypads included # and *. Centrex is still in use today, though not at the level it was in the 1970s and 1980s.

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:54 am 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:
Quote:
BTW, when used in the context of telephony, the * symbol is referred to as a sextile, not an asterisk.

The Forth words * UM* M* and M*/ are pronounced "star," "you-emm-star," "emm-star," and "emm-star-slash" :lol: (and there are others). These are for single-precision multiply, unsigned mixed-precision multiply (ie, with a double-precision product), signed mixed-precision multiply, and take three single-precision numbers and multiply the first by the second to get a double-precision intermediate result and then divide it by the third number and get a single-precision final result.

In typesetting, a / is often referred to as a virgule. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:35 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Historical note: DTMF (Touch-Tone®) dialed phones appeared in the early 1960s in some parts of the USA. # and * (called "sextile")weren't part of the original DTMF keypad layout (I have such a phone here), however the octothorpe and sextile DTMF pairs (as well as others) were assigned for use as control signals in future CO switch designs. Tone signaling was already in use through some inter-LATA trunk exchanges, so DTMF was established well before the 1970s.

I should have said that the overwhelming majority of central offices were converted to DTMF dialing in the 1970's. For trunk signalling they used MF which were frequencies starting at 700hz thru 1700hz spaced at 200hz intervals. It also involved 2600hz for clearing/disconnecting the trunk. (blue box frequencies :lol: )
I used to have a DTMF keypad that was used in some Government Phones that had 16 buttons (an extra column on the right). The right column was (FO, F, I, P) that's Flash Overide, Flash, Interrupt and Priorty.


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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:08 pm 
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A quick note: * in many character sets (such as this one) is often not the correct telephony symbol. As the name implies, it is supposted to have six projections...

I was often amused by the name 'sextile' as a young man. Especially when the phone company literature insisted that it was 'reserved for future applications'. I was easily amused then. :)

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:02 pm 
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clockpulse wrote:
I used to have a DTMF keypad that was used in some Government Phones that had 16 buttons (an extra column on the right). The right column was (FO, F, I, P) that's Flash Overide, Flash, Interrupt and Priorty.

I recall see a 16-key pad on a phone in the late 1960s (1968?) that had A, B, C and D. The FO... scheme didn't seem to be used outside of some government applications. DTMF decoders still recognize those keys, but I have no idea at this time what they would do if the pairs were sent.

As for "blue boxes,"... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:03 pm 
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BTW, we have gotten sooooo far off-topic here...

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 Post subject: Re: ANN: HXA v0.200
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Yes...so, anyway, here's a little test program regarding unacceptable uses of ASSERT, not completely exhaustive:

Code:
; Hobby Cross-Assembler Error Test 008g
; Messages\Assert Messages
; error: failures detected on first pass (BDD1)

; by Anton Treuenfels

; first created: 08/28/13
; last revised:  08/28/13

; warning(s): 1

; error(s): 6

; fatal: 0

; -------------------------------

        .listfile
        .errfile

; -------------------------------

        .cpu    "T_16_L"    ; required psop
        .org    $1000       ; required psop

; -------------------------------

assert            ; try to make it a label

assert   .bit16   $1000      ; try to make it a label

assert   =   $1000      ; try to assign a value

assert  .macro         ; try to make it a macro name
   .endmacro      ; (empty)

   .macro assert      ; try to make it a macro name
   .endmacro            

; -------------------------------

        .end


and here's the error file created:

Code:
; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0029:  assert    ; try to make it a label
; - Unexpected blank field

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0031:  assert .bit16 $1000  ; try to make it a label
; - Expecting operand: <.bit16 $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0033:  assert = $1000  ; try to assign a value
; - Expecting operand: <= $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0035:  assert  .macro   ; try to make it a macro name
; - Expecting operand: <.macro>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0036:   .endmacro  ; (empty)
; - Matching block structure not found

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; 0038:   .macro assert  ; try to make it a macro name
; - Name already in use: <ASSERT>

; >>>>>  Warning in TEST008G.A
; 0039:   .endmacro     
; - Definition ignored

1 Warnings detected
6 Errors detected


and I used to think that was pretty good. But now I wondering if something like this might be even better:

Code:
; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0029:  assert    ; try to make it a label
; - Unexpected blank field

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0031:  assert .bit16 $1000  ; try to make it a label
; - Expecting operand: <.bit16 $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0033:  assert = $1000  ; try to assign a value
; - Expecting operand: <= $1000>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ASSERT>
; 0035:  assert  .macro   ; try to make it a macro name
; - Expecting operand: <.macro>

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ENDMACRO>
; 0036:   .endmacro  ; (empty)
; - Matching block structure not found

; >>>>>  Error in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <MACRO>
; 0038:   .macro assert  ; try to make it a macro name
; - Built-in symbol, pseudo opcode, mnemonic or function name: <ASSERT>

; >>>>>  Warning in TEST008G.A
; - While processing pseudo opcode: <ENDMACRO>
; 0039:   .endmacro     
; - Definition ignored

1 Warnings detected
6 Errors detected


I don't think it would cost too much to add the 'while' line in terms of code or execution time, which would provide a clue as to what the assembler thinks is going on (processing pseudo op, instruction mnemonic, or user macro). And when a name conflict occurs it's certainly possible to distinguish between a built-in and a user-defined one.

This is what BDD has done to me :? He's got me all worried about that poor programmer who can't for the life of him figure out why his utterly reasonable code won't work.


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