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 Post subject: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:24 pm 
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So I guess I pissed everyone off. Sorry. I understand that I should do more research on my own, and that I should not give a lot of traffic to the forum. I will stop posting stuff and I hope that you will remove my posts. I just have bad luck at forums :( . So this is not surprising getting bashed on for dumb questions

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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Whatever man, you're just about due for a ban IMO.
REFRESH #1

EDIT:8/6/13 Link 1 added

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Last edited by ElEctric_EyE on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm 
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It seems like I just wrote this, but I can't remember where, so I'll write it again. We might start a "Beginners" forum which could address a few different issues at once. I've had an email exchange with Mike, and he's thinking about it. We see pros and cons to it, but I think the pros will outweigh the cons. There's a wide range of expertise and experience levels here, and a wide range of cultural and family backgrounds which affect things like temperaments, and it can be a challenge to avoid discouragement, irritation, etc. and promote our common interest which is what the forum was set up to do.

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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:07 pm 
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So you will repost errant posts to the appropriate thread Garth?
Sounds like alot of work...

Also, If you mod's are thinking of that, let me throw this in there too if I may, for a 6502 Project thread like on anycpu. It would include all projects, softcore FPGA and WDC65C02/65C816. Also, 6800 series 8-bit cpu.

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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:12 pm 
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So you will repost errant posts to the appropriate thread Garth?
Sounds like alot of work...

I think Mike is looking into how move topics from one section of the forum to another. The need will probably not be very frequent, although there will be some already-existing ones that get moved as soon as we figure out how to do it in phpBB.

We definitely don't want to have too many sections listed on the front page like some other forums have. It's best to have it all fit on one screen. Having too many sections just increases the chance that things will get put in the wrong section and have to be moved, and that it will be hard to find something. The decision to add another section is definitely not trivial.

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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:37 am 
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James_Parsons wrote:
So I guess I pissed everyone off. Sorry. I understand that I should do more research on my own, and that I should not give a lot of traffic to the forum. I will stop posting stuff and I hope that you will remove my posts. I just have bad luck at forums :( . So this is not surprising getting bashed on for dumb questions

"Dumb" questions aren't dumb until they demonstrate that the questioner hasn't made the effort to find an answer by research and that the questioner is not organized in thought and effort. Research these days is a snap compared to back when I started with electronics (no Internet, etc.). So it should be quite easy to find answers to basic technical questions, as well as more complex ones. Quite a few of us who have built functioning computers from basic parts learned by research. I already knew most of the esoterica but did spend a lot of time reading up about the fine points of circuit design, good construction practice, etc. It's not that difficult if you are motivated and organized.

Organization as a skill is not easily taught and is mostly learned from observation. When I was in the U.S. Navy, we were constantly bombarded with information ranging from very basic stuff (like how to properly make up one's bunk or how to put out a fire) to very complex topics, such as how to hit a target that is over the horizon using guns mounted on a rolling and pitching ship. Absent from that information gusher, however, was how to be organized. The information wasn't needed, as all around us were examples of organization (needless to say, a warship is a very organized place). Learning to be organized was merely a matter of keeping one's mouth shut, and having one's eyes and ears fully opened.

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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:24 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Organization as a skill is not easily taught and is mostly learned from observation.


Which is not to say that there aren't some decent books (and presumably web pages or entire sites) about learning the habit of organization. Julie Morgenstern's Organizing from the Inside Out comes to mind, for example, but the basics and some practical advice can be summed up in a couple of thousand words, maybe less.

I'll also note that chalking up repeated bad experiences with forums to "luck" is profoundly disempowering. Luck is largely outside of one's control. If you look at the matter as one of "I'm doing something wrong, somehow", that is entirely within your control. The possibility exists that the "something wrong" is selecting a community that is not a good fit for you to attempt to join or interact with, and that can be determined by lurking for a while and watching someone else attempt to join the community, or simply looking at the interaction on the forum over the past however long (the last month, or even week, worth of posts would give a good feel for the local community in any reasonably active forum). Once you know how a community interacts, try to match that, or to be even more formal (in most places, I'd expect that long-time contributors get cut a lot more slack than newbies).

Oh, and doing your own initial research (google, or any other search engine, is your friend in this) is the most straightforward way to respect other people's time. A second approach is to not necessarily ask for the answer directly, but to explain what you've done and where you've looked and ask what else you should have done / checked in attempting to find the answer yourself. This signals that you're at least trying, and that you're willing to learn, not merely have the answers spoon-fed to you.

I'll admit, I winced when looking at the recent activity when I signed up for my account, a week and a half ago now, because I could see a storm of newbieish posts. But I was having trouble with my free-run circuit, had managed to narrow it down to just the oscillator, made an introductory post as appeared to be a community norm (and not an unusual one for small communities), and then followed up with a post describing my problem, the sources that I had been using, the observed effects, some of the tools that I had available, and so on. And I had a very quick response which noted, almost in passing, precisely where I screwed up. I've since had input on a couple of other threads. I'm still a newbie here, but I'd like to think that I've made a decent initial impression. But starting slowly, doing a lot of my own research, and being polite has typically worked for me.

-- Alastair Bridgewater


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 Post subject: Re: :( Sorry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:44 am 
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nyef wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Organization as a skill is not easily taught and is mostly learned from observation.

Which is not to say that there aren't some decent books (and presumably web pages or entire sites) about learning the habit of organization. Julie Morgenstern's Organizing from the Inside Out comes to mind, for example, but the basics and some practical advice can be summed up in a couple of thousand words, maybe less.

Yes, there is plenty of print on being organized. As you noted, however, a lot less verbiage can convey the essentials, which again are a form of observation. Personal habit is where organization is developed, and I don't think one has to read books to develop good habits. Working around disciplined and organized people is as educational, if not more so.

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I'll also note that chalking up repeated bad experiences with forums to "luck" is profoundly disempowering. Luck is largely outside of one's control.

Agreed. Luck is a catchall term for throwing up one's hands into the air and hoping that divine intervention or some such thing will intercede and produce the desired result. In what we do, luck has no discernible role in achieving desired results. To (more-or-less) quote J.S. Bach, who was supposedly being impatient with an organ student when he said it: "If you press the right keys at the right time, the organ will make music."

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Oh, and doing your own initial research (google, or any other search engine, is your friend in this) is the most straightforward way to respect other people's time.

I would never recommend Google to anyone, casual researcher or otherwise. I use Ixquick, which has consistently produced more reliable results when researching technical matters, and doesn't track your every move like Google in an attempt to get advertising in front of you or "suggest" things that have nothing to do with what you are trying to accomplish. Also, it appears that Google has been cooperating with the NSA's domestic spying activities. Granted, none us is likely to be a jihadist. It's just the intrusion into basic privacy that p*sses me off.

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I'm still a newbie here, but I'd like to think that I've made a decent initial impression. But starting slowly, doing a lot of my own research, and being polite has typically worked for me.

You have. It's the computer-age version of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." That advice has worked since the days of learned guys with long beards and flowing robes discussing the day's events in Old Latin.

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