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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Tor wrote:
Do we know about any other source for these WDC 6551 chips than Mouser? I wanted to buy a couple to have in store just in case, but the lowest shipping price from Mouser is $30 and that makes the deal a bit unbalanced.

I created a dummy order to be shipped to Norway from Mouser and see what you mean about shipping. Postal service is cheapest but still substantial. Isn't there a source in the UK that carries the WDC line? If so, shipping should be less expensive.

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I haven't been able to find anyone else selling these chips. Jameco don't have them, and in any case they seem to be in the process of scaling down their WDC selection (luckily I got some WDC CPUs from Jameco earlier while they were still stocked).

Hmm...I did see "Closeout" next to some of the WDC items at Jameco. However, they do show "New" next to the 65C51 listing. Usually that means it will be a stocking item.

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Incidentally I noticed Mouser lists two types of the 6551, an S version and an N version - the latter is 5V, the former 1.8V-5V. There's no mention of this on the WDC site.

If the part numbering scheme follows the same pattern as the 65C22, the S version would have a totem-pole IRQ output, and the N version would be open-drain.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:32 pm 
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Don't forget about our sticky topic, "65xx parts sources." If anything needs updating there, let us know.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:58 pm 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:
Don't forget about our sticky topic, "65xx parts sources." If anything needs updating there, let us know.

A German company named DEMA lists WDC products on their line card. However, it appears that they have a 100€ minimum on orders. There are others in Europe, as well, listed on the right-hand side of WDC's website page. Not sure if the combined cost of parts and shipping would be more favorable than ordering through USA-based companies like Jameco and Mouser.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:07 am 
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If the order is $100 or more, it looks like Mouser shipping is free. It also looks like they might be shipping from Sweden for Norway - it gives a Sweden enquiry number when you select Norway.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:26 am 
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BigEd wrote:
If the order is $100 or more, it looks like Mouser shipping is free. It also looks like they might be shipping from Sweden for Norway - it gives a Sweden enquiry number when you select Norway.

I'm not familiar with the economic details of Sweden vis-a-vis Norway, but suspect the shipping rates from one to the other would be reasonable. That should help in controlling the cost. However, few of us are likely to spend 100 dollars on our projects in one shot. I think the most I spent for chips and stuff for POC was around 60 dollars.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:37 am 
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Tor wrote:
Incidentally I noticed Mouser lists two types of the 6551, an S version and an N version - the latter is 5V, the former 1.8V-5V. There's no mention of this on the WDC site.
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
If the part numbering scheme follows the same pattern as the 65C22, the S version would have a totem-pole IRQ output, and the N version would be open-drain.

My guess was wrong. I queried WDC and was told that "...The N refers to the NMOS compatible and NO parity. The parity feature is not available on the W65C51N.

The S version is really our Verilog RTL version for FPGA based PMCUs. We have both the S and N versions with the open collector IRQ so one can wire-or the interrupts, unlike the W65C22S.
"

From what I've been seeing on WDC's website and their Facebook page, the W65C51N is the version that will be available in packaged form.

Incidentally, don't forget that the host side interface for the 65C51 is exactly like that of the 65C22, which means that chip selects must be valid before the rise of Ø2. In other words, don't use Ø2 to qualify chip selects, but do use Ø2 to qualify the MPU's RWB output. If using these I/O devices with the 65C816, chip selects must be qualified by the VDA and VPA outputs to avoid undefined behavior due to false address bus states during intermediate steps of some instructions.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:32 am 
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BigEd wrote:
If the order is $100 or more, it looks like Mouser shipping is free. It also looks like they might be shipping from Sweden for Norway - it gives a Sweden enquiry number when you select Norway.

Yes they give a Swedish number, but they appear to still ship from the US - it looks like they don't have actual stock in Sweden. In that sense it's just like DigiKey which even have a Norwegian catalogue and Norwegian everything (site and phone) but they still ship (expensively) from the US. If Mouser really shipped from Sweden it would be less expensive, but that does not seem to be the case.

As for the free shipping on $100 that opens up a whole new can of worms and is something I only use for buying expensive items. Because the moment I buy for more than approximately $34 all kind of charges are triggered. There's 25% VAT on value and shipping (also if shipping is free, it'll be calculated from an estimated value, typically $30), and there are high, additional custom broker charges by the handler. So suddenly everything is $200.

For ICs and other small parts I therefore always try to buy from somewhere where I can buy some chips and components for up to $25-$30 and pay $10-$12 in shipping (Parallax still ships for $6.09 while another place I buy from ships for $10).

I'll search UK a bit more and see if there are someone there with the WDC line.

-Tor


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Ah, that's a difficult situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:27 pm 
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additional custom broker charges by the handler. So suddenly everything is $200.
Even in Canada it can be a problem. Different vendors offer different terms, but (for example) shipments from Jameco and ExpressPCB incur shipping and brokerage charges, so you're down $60 before you even begin paying for the actual merchandise. :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:08 pm 
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I just received qty 5 of the WD65C51N6 in DIP form from Mouser. They don't work in existing boards. I need to investigate this further, but they aren't a replacement for any Rockwell, Syntertek or CMD devices. I have a couple boards that work flawlessly with all standard 6551 chips and I've tried two out of 5 so far with same result, nothing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Some additional info... I'm using a 1.8432 MHz xtal... the new WDC chips won't oscillate with the XTAL, simply dead (scoping pin 5, which works on all other 6551 chips). All other 6551 variants work with this and other XTALs I have, but non work with the WDC chips. I also tried a standard CAN oscillator (1.8432 MHZ), it works fine with standard 6551 chips but again, not with the WDC chip. I'm starting to think I've got some defective chips or something is pretty odd.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Tor wrote:
Incidentally I noticed Mouser lists two types of the 6551, an S version and an N version - the latter is 5V, the former 1.8V-5V.
Strangely, the S variant isn't visible anymore at Mouser. Last I looked (following the link in the OPs post) there was the one currently listed, W65C51N6TPG-14 (DIP), which is a 5V part, but also a W65C51S6TPG-14 (IIRC) (DIP) which was described as 1.8V-5V but otherwise same specs. They both linked to the same datasheet btw. Both were listed as in stock. Now there's only the 5V N version.

Maybe that was some kind of mistake which they later fixed.

-Tor


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Tor wrote:
Tor wrote:
Incidentally I noticed Mouser lists two types of the 6551, an S version and an N version - the latter is 5V, the former 1.8V-5V.
Strangely, the S variant isn't visible anymore at Mouser. Last I looked (following the link in the OPs post) there was the one currently listed, W65C51N6TPG-14 (DIP), which is a 5V part, but also a W65C51S6TPG-14 (IIRC) (DIP) which was described as 1.8V-5V but otherwise same specs. They both linked to the same datasheet btw. Both were listed as in stock. Now there's only the 5V N version.

Maybe that was some kind of mistake which they later fixed.

-Tor

See here for N vs. S explanation.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:24 pm 
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I saw the explanation of N vs. S earlier, I think it backs my assumption that Mouser's temporary display of a DIP 'S' 6551 was an error.

-Tor


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