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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:38 pm 
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ElEctric_EyE wrote:
GARTHWILSON wrote:
... I do wear out keyboards with all my typing, and USB is not hobbyist-friendly at all. It's ok for digital cameras and other consumer items, but I hope other alternatives remain available for hobbyists.

Those PS2 to USB adapters are straight-through adapters, meaning the D+ and D- signals are not special. They connect to the data and clock lines. We discussed it here not too long ago. YT2095 brought it up towards the bottom.

I tried one on one of my computers and it didn't work. Are you saying the PC somehow reverts to the I2C-like keyboard interface method when you connect a keyboard?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:03 pm 
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whartung wrote:
Is it easier today to stick with a PS/2 keyboard, which is a vanishing breed, vs USB? I imagine I may still have a PS/2 keyboard around here somewhere, but most are USB. I can see it being cheaper with less components than USB, but if the point is having some stock module to act in the middle, does USB make any more sense?

The PS/2 keyboard is not a vanishing breed. Sheer inertia will keep it around for a long time, much as sheer inertia has kept TIA-232 (RS-232) around for some 40 years.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Quote:
I tried one on one of my computers and it didn't work. Are you saying the PC somehow reverts to the I2C-like keyboard interface method when you connect a keyboard?


I have one of this usb to ps/2 adapters:
Image
And it really transforms usb to the i2c like signals that ps/2 uses, and I have no problems connecting my usb keyboard to my SBC.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:20 am 
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Have you checked the connectivity of this device? My understanding is that these are completely passive and trivial pass-through devices. The PC uses the PS/2 protocol, and the keyboard (which is capable of using either protocol) chooses to use the PS/2 protocol as well. The intelligence is in the keyboard, not the adapter (or the PC)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:14 pm 
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I tested my adapter, and yes, the PS/2 hardware is in the keyboard itself, so what that means, I could just add an USB plug on my sbc and it would work as well...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:20 pm 
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A USB socket which carries the PS/2 protocol? Innovative!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:34 pm 
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At least you could make look your sbc more "up to date". :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Dajgoro wrote:
At least you could make look your sbc more "up to date". :D

"Up to date?" Keep in mind that newer technology isn't necessarily better technology.

USB is a kludge that was developed to satisfy a need to allow a non-technical PC user to connect and disconnect peripherals without having to engage in a lot of computer mumbo-jumbo. Keyboards very rarely get connected and disconnected in the normal course of events, which begs the question: why mess with USB for a device that once plugged in, seldom gets unplugged? The PS/2 port on all PCs is a separately decoded interface with its own IRQ, making it much more responsive to user input. Ditto for the PS/2 mouse port. Also, as has been noted before, USB interfacing is a relatively complex undertaking, whereas the PS/2 protocol is relatively simple. Connecting a USB keyboard to a PS/2 port is completely pointless, unless one doesn't have a PS/2 keyboard.

Tell me again: exactly what is it you are gaining by using a USB keyboard?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:21 pm 
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I think, that was supposed to be a joke. It would just look like USB, however the protocol would still be PS2.

At least the USB connector is better for hot plugging - ground & power first, then signal.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:17 pm 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
exactly what is it you are gaining by using a USB keyboard?[/size]
Well, if we limit the answer to when USB keyboards were introduced for PCs, the immediate difference was that suddenly you could plug in a keyboard _after_ the computer was powered on.. something that never worked with PS2 back then, there were countless times I had to reboot the computer (not only PCs, but also e.g. SGI computers) b/c the keyboard hadn't been plugged in. Obviously that's not a deficiency of PS2, it's just that the drivers didn't use to handle that back then. Now some of them do, and you can insert and remove and insert PS2 keyboards and they'll work. But USB had this requirement from the beginning, so keyboards could do this right from the start.

Other than that, I don't think there's much to gain by using USB keyboards.. I collect PS2 keyboards. I use them for my microcontroller boards. It's so easy to add PS2 to a Propeller, for example.

-Tor


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:52 pm 
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This document provides an example algorithm for use in a keyboard micro-controller to determine if it is being connected via USB or PS/2. See page 11.

http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/ref_manual/DRM014.pdf

So it looks like the adapters are just straight through.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Since I do wear out keyboards with all my typing, I've been through many of them, and I remember one particular one I had in the late 1990's that crashed regularly. (They keyboard's microcontroller itself apparently crashed and didn't seem to have a watchdog timer to get it going again.) At the time, I had two computers using the same monitor and keyboard, with a switch to switch these from one computer to the other, which might have been a cause of the crashing (although other keyboards handled it ok). Unplugging this keyboard from the back of the switch box and plugging it back in always got it going again, and I never turned off the computers.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:58 pm 
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If you wear out keyboards, you should try one of these. They have the same design as the famous IBM model M.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Or just get one of those old 101 key keyboards with the big din connector, like I did. :D
They are kinda hard to ware out.
Or you could also get a das keyboard (http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/) since I saw it in many reviews, it also includes a ps2 adapter.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:47 am 
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Wanted to make folks aware of a similar solution I have available for sale:

http://store.go4retro.com/ps-2-keyboard-encoder/

It is slightly more expensive, though it offers some additional configuration, and you can hack it to your liking. I am modifying the code to allow larger uC options to do KB matrix scanning in addition to PS/2, and I could add SPI if desired.

Jim


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