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Dajgoro
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 pm 
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On BigEd-s advice i started a new topic.

As for replacement, it would be good if the replacement would have a bit more space for logic and registers, that 108 macrocells. An FPGA board like the one mentioned before would suit the propose, but that has too many add ons that are not necessary and it is too expensive, so i m looking for something less expensive that would fit in some sort of trough hole socket.
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BigDumbDinosaur
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:26 am 
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Dajgoro wrote:
On BigEd-s advice i started a new topic.

As for replacement, it would be good if the replacement would have a bit more space for logic and registers, that 108 macrocells. An FPGA board like the one mentioned before would suit the propose, but that has too many add ons that are not necessary and it is too expensive, so i m looking for something less expensive that would fit in some sort of trough hole socket.

See my reply right here.

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BigEd
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:51 am 
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Or, to preserve the concept of threads, here is BDD's reply:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Perhaps you should look at the Atmel 15xx series, which is a 5 volt product available in PLCC, as well as other packages. Atmel also sells a programming rig that accepts various adapters for the different package types, or you can implement the JTAG port on your PCB. I selected an Atmel 1508AS for use in my POC V2 project.

Despite what some around here may think, Xilinx isn't the only maker of CPLDs. :D
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BigDumbDinosaur
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:23 pm 
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BigEd wrote:
Or, to preserve the concept of threads, here is BDD's reply:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Perhaps you should look at the Atmel 15xx series, which is a 5 volt product available in PLCC, as well as other packages. Atmel also sells a programming rig that accepts various adapters for the different package types, or you can implement the JTAG port on your PCB. I selected an Atmel 1508AS for use in my POC V2 project.

Despite what some around here may think, Xilinx isn't the only maker of CPLDs. :D

I want to clarify that while I did purchase the programming/test rig sold by Atmel so I could monkey with the CPLD outside of the realm of an actual circuit, it isn't needed to program the ATF15xx series devices—they have a standard JTAG port. Atmel's freely-downloadable WinCUPL software suite is used to write, compile and simulate the logic, as well as fit it to the target device and generate a JEDEC fuse map. A separate program called Atmel ISP is used to program the device. Unfortunately, WinCUPL and Atmel ISP are Windows-only, so there's no avoiding the use of "Billy-ware." :(

I have so far written some simple combinatorial code for the ATF1508AS CPLD (a 5 volt, PLCC84 device with 128 macrocells and 10ns prop time), successfully simulated same and tested it on the Atmel test rig. I am now working toward the logic that will be required to make POC V2 function. I had partially developed that logic before but have to change it since deciding to use Garth's 4MB SIMM instead of discrete SRAMs.

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Dajgoro
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:49 am 
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Where can they be bought for a low price?

Edit: what about my FPGA idea, are there any such modules, but cheaper than the one shown before?
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BigDumbDinosaur
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:07 am 
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Dajgoro wrote:
Where can they be bought for a low price?

Depends on how you define "low price." Digi-Key has it for about 15 USD.

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Edit: what about my FPGA idea, are there any such modules, but cheaper than the one shown before?

I can't help you with that but perhaps someone else could.

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Dajgoro
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:48 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Depends on how you define "low price." Digi-Key has it for about 15 USD.

15$ sounds ok, but DigiKey has skyrocketing shipping prices.
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Arlet
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:46 am 
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Dajgoro wrote:
15$ sounds ok, but DigiKey has skyrocketing shipping prices.

Well, somebody has to be paying for my free shipping when I order from DigiKey ;)
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BigEd
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:45 am 
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The FPGA boards which Dajgoro refers to are these:
Arlet wrote:
Dajgoro, in the first post there's a link to these OHO boards, which seem to fit your requirements.


Arlet adds
Arlet wrote:
I doubt you can get much cheaper than 50-60 Euros for something like this, and you'd probably end up spending more if you try to make it yourself.
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BigDumbDinosaur
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Arlet wrote:
Dajgoro wrote:
15$ sounds ok, but DigiKey has skyrocketing shipping prices.

Well, somebody has to be paying for my free shipping when I order from DigiKey ;)

That would be me! :(

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BigDumbDinosaur
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Dajgoro wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Depends on how you define "low price." Digi-Key has it for about 15 USD.

15$ sounds ok, but DigiKey has skyrocketing shipping prices.

Surely there must be someone in Europe with these parts. I suspect, though, that while you may pay less for shipping, you'll pay more for the part itself. So it may end up being a wash.

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BigEd
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:03 pm 
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That Atmel CPLD in 84-pin PLCC is a shade over £10 on digikey.co.uk which is a very similar price: postage and possibly duties are going to be important.
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Dajgoro
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Ah, until the Chinese get their hands on such things, this is going to be expensive.
Also i would like to get some more hands on experience with fpga...
Lets say i want to design a board that would suit my wishes, what FPGA is cheap and small enough to fit on such a board, and what to use for level converters?

O.T. Garthwilson said that he didn't get free shipping from most of the Chinese sellers from ebay. But when i browse for items, almost all Chinese sellers offer me free shipping, so popular components tend to cost only 0.99$. :D
They are also terrified from non 5 star feedback, and they will ship you the item more than once if the item didn't get on time, or the item was of the wrong type, just to get 5 stars. As their warehouses work in a hurry, that is often he case, but they sometimes also send me more that i ordered in a single package. :D But at the end of the deal, i can only get more than i ordered.
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YT2095
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:30 pm 
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I use the Altera 7128ELC84 here, along with a PLCC to DIP adapter board, there is a larger version in the MAX7000 series with more LE`s but I`v yet to find one on ebay.
a word of caution though, if you`re going to use the 7000 series chips make sure it`s followed by an `S` like 7064S or 7032S etc... as anything else isn`t capable of being programmed with a JTAG cable and needs a special programmer (I found out the hard way after buying 15 of these 7064`s).
oddly the 7128E will program with JTAG, but that may just be a one-off rather than a rule!
http://www.altera.co.uk/products/device ... index.html

I considered the Xilinx 95XX but with my eyesight it would be impossible for me to solder up now (15 years ago maybe).

Edited to add: today my 7064AELC chips arrived, and can also be programmed with JTAG, so it seems the `S` and the `A` suffix are ok to use, although the `A` suffix is 3.3v core with TTL compatible Inputs.

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Dajgoro
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Somebody was reading my thoughts. :D
http://micro-nova.com/mercury
But still, a bit too expensive for my budget.
But if there were only a stripped down version with no usb, ad, and oscillator...
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