Hi People,

Just an update, I'm busy designing the pcb for my KIM project, still tweeking it here and there though. I've just put an order in at Mouser for 25x 128kx8 static rams they are so cheap it just isn't worth it to fart about with 32k + 8k individual chips.So there will be about 50kbytes available space for basic programming.

I've been sniffing around the AIM 65 and it's definately going to be my next project.

Enso, I notice you are using fpga's, I'm afraid my programming knowledge stops with cpld's. However, I would like to ask where you can buy the fpga you are using and how much does it cost, also what soldering equipment is required to place a device on a board?

Cheers
Commie

Hmm, modern FPGA-s tend to be BGA, so you can forget about soldering them.
Anyway modern FPGA are all in SMD form, so not really hobby friendly. Luckily there are adapter boards around, you can find them on ebay as well. Another problem with FPGA is that you must boot them every time you power them up, and they tend to be 3.3V.
But once you get them working, they are fantastic, you can fit lots of stuff in it.

Commie, check this thread:http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2352&start=15 for information about a ready-made $27.99 FPGA module. It's a lot easier than soldering down a BGA unless you enjoy that kind of thing.

If you do want to do your own, it's not too hard. I've used a toaster oven with success. I am also building a hotplate, I started a thread for that as well.

Mouser, DigiKey, everyone has FPGAs. If you are not using [url]octopart.com[/url] check it out too.

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In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. ...Jan van de Snepscheut

We have a thread for FPGA boards over here.
Cheers
Ed

You might want to check out the logic forum here. There are stepped tutorials that you can learn from.

The Gameduino is an FPGA board for the Arduino microcontroller and you can see the thread here on 6502.org:

viewtopic.php?t=1774&start=30

It also works on the Maple at a faster frame rate.

I posted a bunch of tutorials on another electronic forum but I have to find a few minutes to look them up.

Hi Guys,

My Rockwell R65C02P4's(2006 date code) arrived today, remember the idea being to try and fathom why the W65C02-14 doesn't run KB9, I make the assumption that the latter two CPU's are the same except the Rockwell part can run at 4MHz-max whilst the WDC part is 14MHz-max, both are cmos with enhanced instruction sets.

Well..., I tried the Rockwell 65C02 in my prototype and it runs KB9 perfectly no problems whatsoever. I'm afraid my results are 100% conclusive:-therefore I put a big question mark on Western Design Centre's parts, which is a bit of shame really because my end goal was to make a 14~20MHz KIM, using their 6502.

Enso, there are many here(me included) who just want to design and use a 6502 based computer, one area where you might conjure somemore interest with your fpga skills is simply I/O, i.e., video chips supporting hires graphics with sprites, alternatively you could attempt to design a complete Commodore 64 on a chip.

Thanks for all the fpga tutorial's responses from various members, thank you I will look them up.

Cheers
Commie

Did you remember to disconnect pin 1 on the WDC 65c02? On the WDC one it's a vector-pull output, whereas on the other brands it's a ground.

Make sure pin 5 also is not connected. On the WDC part it is a memory-lock output. Pin 36 is a bus-enable input, so if it's connected at all, it should be pulled up. I does have a very weak passive pull-up internally. (Obviously pins 1, 5, and 36 do have functions, but these are the things that need to be observed if the new part with new I/O's is put in a circuit made for the old part without them.)

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Hi Garth,

Yep I remembered to do all that you mention and infact the W65C02 WDC part does
run the KIM monitor rom with my setup, so no problems there but when I load KB9 and then try and run KB9 it just kicks out fffffffff's, like I say, the R6502P,R6502A and the R65C02P4 work perfectly.I reckon there is something not quite right with WDC.

Cheers

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

If you contact, WDC directly, there is a good chance you will be able to talk to Bill.

Commie, when you acquired the WDC CPU(s), were they new? (And do you have a single piece, or more than one?) A used part might be damaged -- and it's conceivable that a damaged CPU might successfully run some programs but not others. For example if an address line were stuck high or stuck low, that's a flaw that might be tolerated by a small program (like the monitor) but not a large one (like KB9). Or the CPU defect could be internal, and selectively made evident by some other difference between the two programs.

Just trying to help... I admit this sounds like a long shot

-- Jeff

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In 1988 my 65C02 got six new registers and 44 new full-speed instructions!
https://laughtonelectronics.com/Arcana/ ... mmary.html

Hi Jeff and others,

I purchased 4x W65C02 and 4xW65C22 from Mouser, the first one I tried would not run KB9, then I accidently pulled it out of my prototype whilst power was still applied, it never worked again,i.e., wouldnt even communicate with my console, so fair enough I blew the chip, so get another brand new one out of the tube, and try it, same result again, runs kim monitor rom but not KB9.
For what it's worth,I the made the same mistake with an NMOS R6502P and there after it carried on working no problem.

I more than anyone want the W65C02 to work, I have checked the data sheet and have applied the correct pullups on various pins, but alas nogo. It simply does not want to run KB9 which can only mean there is a question mark on WDC.

It's an uncommonly perplexing puzzle you're describing, Commie. It'd be nice if we could determine the exact instruction in KB9 at which the WDC takes a branch that differs from what the other CPUs do, but I can't think of any good way of determining that, short of settinp up a Logic Analyzer. Single-stepping (or, better yet, halting KB9 after a precise delay) would do the trick but that'd be immensely time consuming.

My trouble-shooting Spider Sense is tingling in regard to this question. If all three versions are supposed to work, that's an observation that's important. I'd pursue the matter, even though it perhaps seems not to have a bearing on the WDC question.

Keep us posted!

Jeff
ps- Has anybody here run the other two basics V2 and V3 from the zip file successfully?

_________________
In 1988 my 65C02 got six new registers and 44 new full-speed instructions!
https://laughtonelectronics.com/Arcana/ ... mmary.html

Hi Jeff,

Yeah, it is a perplexing problem and my thoughts run exactly like yours, I've checked the first 500 bytes or so and I can't see anything wrong but given KB9 is 8k8 bytes long its a big task to try and find out where the problem lies, it's easier to just hang up and assume their is something wrong with WDC's parts, it's shame I know but my tests are conclusive, all of the Rockwell parts ordered from ebay/China work no problem, whilst WDC's parts bought brand new from Mouser runs KIM monitor rom okay but dont work with Microsoft basic KB9.



This is from an old post, I solved this problem by emailing the website owner, basically there is no Microsoft V2 and V3 basics by Microsoft instead they are modifications made by him, in otherwords he has messed with the original Microsoft version. There is only one Microsoft basic for the KIM1, thats KB9 V1.1 1977 and it's very impressive particularly when you consider it's age, I'll tell you what, it's better than my TI84 basic circa 2005.This is my whole reason for designing a working 6502 system.

Cheers for now guys
Commie