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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:24 am 
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I've decided to take a break from playing with my 65xx toys. POC V1 is running and is rock-solid, so there's not too much to be done there. I need to get some fresh perspective on how I want to proceed with POC V2. Adding to the fun, I am making a significant propulsion system design change to my large-scale model locomotive, which process will require a fair amount of time in the shop fabricating stuff, twisting wrenches and getting dirty. Plus I have the usual business exigencies to attend. The time demands are getting out of hand, so I'm temporarily placing the DIY computer stuff on the back burner.

I will continue to check in on a regular basis but won't be posting much until I get some of this other stuff out of the way.

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ElEctric_EyE
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
... I am making a significant propulsion system design change...

Where can we read about this propulsion design change? and your progress? or maybe this is a result only project, which is fine too...

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Dajgoro
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:25 am 
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How do your locomotives even look like? Can wee see them?
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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:39 am 
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ElEctric_EyE wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
... I am making a significant propulsion system design change...

Where can we read about this propulsion design change? and your progress? or maybe this is a result only project, which is fine too...

Dajgoro wrote:
How do your locomotives even look like? Can wee see them?

I have hundreds of photos that I took during the build process, but unlike the POC project, I haven't organized them into a website or anything. However, I'll upload a side view of the main drawing that I created as I was doing the design work so you can an idea as to what the finished unit will look like. The file is quite large, so please be patient as it downloads.

Attachment:
File comment: F7 Diesel-Electric Locomotive Side View
f7_side_view.jpg
f7_side_view.jpg [ 3.07 MiB | Viewed 5838 times ]

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Dajgoro
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:50 am 
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Where on earth do you find parts for building such a contraption??? :shock:

You could use your POC computer as a rail management system (if you do have a rail system in your backyard).
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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:24 am 
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Dajgoro wrote:
Where on earth do you find parts for building such a contraption??? :shock:

Some of it is off-the-shelf commercial stuff (e.g., prime mover, traction motors, etc.). Some is fabricated using off-the-shelf parts as the basis for the finished component (e.g., the brakes, which are built around industrial disc brake calipers). The rest of it I fabricated from raw materials (e.g., the frame). Modeling is all about taking readily available stuff and changing it into something that fits the application. For example, the fluid coupling is actually a part used in industrial conveyors. I was able to get the manufacturer to supply one with an output shaft machined to my specifications. Here's a picture of the unit without the body, taken during some testing at the railroad.
Attachment:
File comment: F7 wo/Body During Testing
on_trestle.jpg
on_trestle.jpg [ 710.74 KiB | Viewed 5832 times ]

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You could use your POC computer as a rail management system (if you do have a rail system in your backyard).

Actually, I'm a member of a large scale model railroad club, with over 6000 feet of track spread over 7-1/2 acres of land. The railroad has an automatic block signal system that I designed and built, with prototypical operation. Microprocessors are a liability in such an application, as they are electrically fragile, and everything is outdoors and subjected to EMPs from nearby lightning strikes, as well as various other electrical gremlins. Most of the signal circuitry is built around electromechanical logic, similar to that used by real railroads.

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Dajgoro
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:01 am 
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This hobby must be really expensive :shock: !
I must go over heavy trouble just to get myself a metal chassis done. Last time i was home me, a friend of mine and my dad were to a hardware shop and we bought 2x1M 1mm thick steel sheet, and i made a deal with a friend. The deal is he makes chassis and metal parts for me, and i make him custom electronic gadgets. I hope that the deal will work. :D

I remember seeing a video on youtube that showed a relay computer that regulated rail traffic at some rail switching system. Don't relays spark and damage the contacts over time?

Ever thought about building a 3d printer, diy car, or something else?
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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:55 am 
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Dajgoro wrote:
This hobby must be really expensive :shock: !

It depends a lot on how resourceful one is. I'm very handy with machine tools, can weld and can fabricate. Over the years, I've been able to get my hands on some machines for my shop (including a 250 amp industrial MIG welder), so I'm able to accomplish a lot of fabricating tasks without having to pay someone else to do the work. Most of the cost in the locomotive is in items such as the prime mover, fluid coupling, traction system, etc., as I can't make things like that. Some stuff, like the frame sections, I had a local shop laser cut the steel and form it to my drawings. I then completed the frame buildup in my shop, using a jig I built to align everything. Here's a picture of the partially completed frame on the jig plate after welding.

Attachment:
File comment: Partially Completed Frame
frame_rv.jpg
frame_rv.jpg [ 131.91 KiB | Viewed 5799 times ]

There are about 7500 dollars (US) tied up in the unit. I guess that if I had to pay someone to do everything in it I'd have three times that much money invested.

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I remember seeing a video on youtube that showed a relay computer that regulated rail traffic at some rail switching system. Don't relays spark and damage the contacts over time?

Proper relay application matches the contact sizes and materials to the loads being switched. A lot of relay logic handles low current at low voltage, since it is other relay coils that are being controlled. Any relay that has to switch a sizable load, such as a high-wattage incandescent lamp or a large motor, would be fitted with larger contacts made of metals that can tolerate the loading. For example, relays that are expected to switch logic circuits are usually fitted with gold-flashed contacts and if the current is really low (e.g., a few milliamps) bifurcated contacts are used to achieve high reliability and extremely low contact resistance (way down in the milliohm range). On the other hand, a relay that is expected to control an incandescent lamp powered from the mains voltage (e.g., 220 VAC at 50 Hz where you are) will be fitted with silver contacts or in some cases, tungsten. A large motor contactor often has tungsten contacts and if the motor is powered by DC, magnetic arc chutes may be fitted to the contacts to "blow out" the arc that occurs when the contacts open.

In certain types of applications, relays are preferred, since they are less likely to fail in an unsafe way than solid state devices. In railway signaling, for example, where a malfunction could conceivably result in a serious wreck, the relays that detect the presence of a train in a signal block (track circuit relays) are gravity release—no springs are used, since springs can break, and are pneumatically dampened so they don't "bounce" due to unavoidable fluctuations in the track circuit resistance when a train is in the block. Such relays are referred to as "vital," as they operate in circuits where failure cannot be tolerated. In the event a track circuit relay does fail it does so in a safe manner so that the signals tell an oncoming train operator that something is wrong (usually giving a stop indication). Although a lot of work has gone into trying to replace vital relays with electronics, no one has devised a more trustworthy solution to date.

Quote:
Ever thought about building a 3d printer, diy car, or something else?

Well, among other things, I've built several race cars (one of which will do over 160 miles per hour in a standing quarter mile), an air sled capable of 100 MPH, powered by a garden tractor engine, a 1/4 scale cannon (using black powder to fire a one inch ball bearing) and in the electronics realm, built a private automatic telephone exchange (PBX) for a company that I worked at in the 1970s. Most of my building nowadays is confined to computer toys and model railroading. I'm getting too old to be doing dangerous things at high speeds in automobiles, so there's no point in building more fast cars.

A 3-D printer would be cool. But first you have to come up with some 3-D paper to put in it. :lol:

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Dr Jefyll
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Quote:
Here's a picture of the partially completed frame
Sweet! Thanks for the peek! :D

J.

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Dajgoro
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:09 pm 
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7500$ fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, that is a loooooooootttttttttt of money for a hobby. I hope that it is worth the fun! :D

As for the 3d paper thing, you could find some sort of nozzle to print thin layers of some sort of liquid material. Maybe epoxy or some more modern material could work.
Or maybe even something that would use real metal.
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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Dajgoro wrote:
7500$ fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, that is a loooooooootttttttttt of money for a hobby. I hope that it is worth the fun! :D

Much cheaper than race cars. :lol:

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ElEctric_EyE
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Your welding looks like squirrel poop BDD...

But I am in awe at your overall proficiency.

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:13 pm 
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ElEctric_EyE wrote:
Your welding looks like squirrel poop BDD...

But I am in awe at your overall proficiency.

Squirrel poop? The welds are fairly large because that whole frame is fabricated from quarter-inch hot-rolled steel. The picture doesn't help any. I'll see if I have other pictures that give a better view.

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ElEctric_EyE
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Well, considering.... If you are using flux core wire for your MIG welder this must be OK then. But I've had many years experience in exhaust work with MIG welders using Argon and Oxygen gas and the results are way superior.

EDIT: Let me correct that, been more than a few years since I did exhaust work, since all manufacturers switched to stainless steel and I had to leave that line of work. So my immediate memory was lacking in my previous comment... For welding, I believe we used Argon along with the MIG welders. For the cutting torches we used Oxygen and Acetylene. And this was work done on everyday vehicles on the road.

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Dajgoro
 Post subject: Re: TAKING A BREAK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:13 pm 
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How do you bend the steel to get that U shape chassis, it is 1-2cm thick after all. Or do you order it that way?
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