Nobody said that the kit must use the RIOT, i just quoted that there exists a simpler system.

About NMOS parts, the kit should be NMOS tolerant, so if somebody has scrap NMOS ic, they can be also used.

I am here because I am a Commodore 64 user, 128 and Amiga user. I also used Apple IIe's at my high school. I had the choice of spending $200 on a kit that gave me chips, eproms, an eprom burner and instructions on how to bootstrap it or I could buy an Amiga. The person selling the kit wanted buyers to agree to (C) copyright the bootstrap code to his name which means there were conditions placed on the software meaning that I could be sued for violating the "look and feel" of his code and it wasn't really open source. I felt that with the way Commodore and Apple were moving that the old hardware was too slow and that I could probably build a computer but that I couldn't compete with Commodore. I was also going to college and knew that I was to spend my time studying instead of studying hardware.

I didn't plan on Commodore going bankrupt and I kept holding on to the notion that someone else would do something with the technology like Emscom. I think the president of CMD would have done more with the Commodore technology than most other people would have. The introduction of new Amigas was promising but each time the Amiga community was left down. We can also see how many losers there were in the computer wars.

I want a new computer and I don't have a fab. I can't make chips. I surveyed the available computer companies and chips available because I have this notion that I could include a processor like the 65C816S with other chips like how Xgamestation did with a 6502 and other chips. I spent some considerable time reading.

I've been offered hardware in exchange for something in return but "something in return" isn't defined, I don't know how to make deals and my word is a contract. If I say "yes" to something that isn't defined then I could owe a lot more than I know. I'm willing to give something back to someone but I don't agree unless I know what I owe.

I've been pointed to places that teach but I've been led to believe that a starter kit is where I am to start and when I get it they say I was really supposed to start with a kit before it and they turn teaching into a class instead of short tutorials to get started and others say "you don't know what you are getting into". In the end, it is a real disappointment because teachers are in roles and functions that they don't plan on concluding, everyone thinks they are the only ones who can do something so they don't teach others and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I want to learn. I want to make a computer. I don't want to take someone else's design. I don't want to owe anyone.

I represent the learner. I haven't given up but I haven't succeeded.

I bought some Cortex M0 chips and I have invested in ARM and because of people who have given me free help, I can do more than from the ones who have led me on with paid help. I'm a busy parent so I am often exhausted but I made some more room to work and learn and unfortunately I may make my future contributions not to the 6502 family.

BDD: if you want on-topic discussions and narrowly defined focus, you may need to stop issuing random challenges!

Everyone: please don't feel obliged to answer every point everyone makes, especially when they are writing for length. And most especially when they are taking potshots - if we could just keep our off-topic opinions to ourselves we would get along better.

As BDD sometimes admits, he doesn't make the rules here. As he had said himself, if a topic doesn't interest you, you are free to skip that discussion. It does help if discussions stay on-topic: make a new thread if a new conversation is called for.

There's plenty of room in the forum for a wide range of interests - let's not try to mention everything in every thread.

Cheers
Ed

I failed to mention who's the potential customer of the kit or rather say, who do I think would be likely to buy something like that. The workshops I lead are about two hours long and most people are in their 20's and 30's, generally IT professionals, web designers and all sorts of digital craftsmen. These people are high earners who wish to learn a different kind of level of technology they deal with on a daily basis. Since they spend most of their time glued to the screen (working), they want to do something tangible. Hence the soldering and electronics. And boy they love it. We also have artists, design students and any kind of people who's remotely interested in technology. It seems to me that lots of the 'digital creatives' want to learn and experience a different kind of abstraction. As we already stated, an operating system conceals what's inside a computer and how it works. The kit would be perfect to do something tangible, learn about computer architecture and have something you have total control over.

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

My only complaint with this is that now the slippery slope of the SoCs start kicking in, which goes back to the ostensibly fundamental goals of the project. That RIOT chips "hides" a lot of what the project is supposed to reveal, IMHO.

I completely appreciate where a designer would want to use such a component, just like I would someone wanting to use a SoC or robust micro controller. These are certainly simpler circuits, but I think less effective at education than having the primary components separated. Circuit as functioning block diagram.