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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

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x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

I think if you want success, you have to go with low cost and the social media which is the Raspberry Pi. In order for some students to learn, they have to learn at home and $300 eprom burners are out of the question. The second issue is that you don't have the social media presence to promote 8 bit computers anymore like Compute!, Compute's Gazette, Run, Ahoy, etc. There is also the attention span factor; you can't get easy to use video or sound chips for the 6502 to interest students.

I went to college and students who had no idea or exposure to computers chose computer classes expecting the teacher to them them and the instructor didn't. If you don't know how to cook, giving people a bunch of ingredients from a recipe isn't going to help. They have to be willing to buy books, magazines and spend some time programming which is what we called "cookbook".

I spent several years reading about Microcontrollers, breaking the piggy bank and I still don't have time or know how to program a single microcontroller but I'm going to give it a try soon. You have to be young, have a lot of time and have no commitments. You have to be willing to learn new languages like C or Linux to get ahead today.

I got a Commodore 64 for Christmas and I spent each day trying to learn a new command until I got bored. I then took Basic in high school and again in college because the college made me. I learned another language called Pascal and I think it is from being fluent that you start to understand some things but all that learning didn't translate into understanding electronics, processors or microcontrollers.

There are financial and social reasons to make it easier to learn and each platform has its advantages and disadvantages but the days of Jim Butterfield coming along and helping me learn Apatco's computer with magazine articles isn't going to happen because those days are long gone. Instead, I have to spend the day at the library trying to figure out what books I can get my hands on to borrow so I can learn. I hope they didn't throw those old books out to make room for fiction.

You basically need a lot of geeks to come alongside of you and I think that you would have more success with the Raspberry Pi on the programming side. If you want to learn through building then pick up Arduino or another microcontroller where there are more tutorials. I think people can learn a lot about xbees and servos.

If you want to make the 6502 survive, you have to have kits and a culture to promote it. License a language. License a bare bones kit. Post tutorials. Create an online magazine. Write and produce some youtube videos. If you don't, you will probably be the last generation to use the 6502. Cars have computers in them and I think some of them are ARM products and not 6502. You basically have to promote sales by giving the next generation a product so if you want to be important, put your name on some projects, copyright them and patent them. Write a few e-books and put your name on them.

I'm learning ARM and the Arm Cortext M0 and M4 so I just ordered more parts and I'm ready to learn. I would be willing to learn with anyone but I also chose this alternative route. I'm willing to teach my son's clases what I've done but unfortunately it probably won't be 6502 related because the material available isn't geared for that so I've chosen ARM. I can be a great teacher but someone has to teach me first.

In order to have sales, you have to have service. Where is the service to teach and promote the 6502? Does it exist to the level that kids are learning it? I would say more service exists on the level of the Raspberry Pi.

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Why is that?

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http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Makes sense however I never had problem with the FTDI converter. It's pretty straightforward. I can feel your sentiment about using a host computer. A keyboard and an LCD display would be more suitable. In fact, I don't like the idea of having to use a 1000x more powerful computer as a host.

I do have social media presence. Not me but the company I (occasionally) work for. It hurts me to say and write but Twitter and Facebook are powerful weapons of publicity and promotion (I do despise both). May I add, the DIY industry is before an explosion. Very posh high-street retailers (that British English for Wall Marts of the rich) showed lot of interest. Tesco (the other end) already sells Arduino.

"Since the object of this hypothetical kit is to get individuals' "hands dirty" with digital circuitry, insulation via PC-based software abstractions would tend to be counterproductive, methinks."

It's just helps the user to get started. The software would be an option, otherwise the user could chose the keyboard+LCD display combo.

This might need some delicate handling. Without throwing away the vintage appeal, you'll want to make sure people don't automatically think "Old. Incapable. Slow," before their imaginations are opened up to what they could do with it.
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I don't think so. Who thinks the mighty Commodore or the famous Apple II are incapable? The idea here is learning and doing. People buy DIY kits to make beer. Sure, they can just buy cans at the supermarket for cheap and you don't even have to wait weeks but that's not the same as brewing your own. Again, making beer is an ancient craft yet there are literally tens of thousands of micro breweries in the US. The SBC would not meant to be for browsing or video editing. It's about joy of making and understanding.

Where is the joy after suffering for a year on my old project without internet help? There was no joy, until the discipline conquered the unknown mistake on my part, without the help of "voices".

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65Org16:https://github.com/ElEctric-EyE/verilog-6502

The think i would most like to see is a proper IDE environment for the 6502, like the 68k has the ide68k with a C compiler in it. I know that there is the cc65 but it is almost a year that i am trying to figure it out (it is not that i am trying with it every day), but even after i found toes documents, i still couldn't get it to work right for my system (in the simulator)...
If such a tool existed, i think that there would be a lot of cool project with a 6502 just to make them cooler, and it would gain more interest.

We definitely need more of that, because it seems nobody from my generation never heard about the 6502, every time i tell someone about my diy projects and the 6502 they are immediately confused, only collage professors recall something about the 6502.
Also many people think that it is like impossible to build your own computer, and that is like a taboo topic. So we should post more Youtube videos, Hackaday posts, and post into some other sites too in order to brake the ice/taboo.

How many schools are taking part with 6502.org? That is my point. Things would have to change for them to do so.

Seems to me that the Micro KIM-1 kit meets pretty much all of these requirements.

http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=24

It's essentially a KIM-1 clone that you can assemble. Keypad and hex display. 5K RAM, single step function, RS-232 to replace the original TTY interface of the KIM. Needs a few more parts to enable the cassette interface, you can use the Paper Tape logic to save and load programs via a terminal emulator that can capture and send files (or simply cut and paste).

$109 + power supply.

Documentation seems OK, but there's no theory (at least in the PDF they link on the site). It also didn't seem to have a staged assembly procedure. If you've read Ciarcia's Z80 book, he builds the computer in stages, each to a testable goal to check your progress. These docs are more "stuff the components in this order" to go from bare board to completed project.

But that's something that could be worked on.

It is a compelling piece of kit, I think, around which a curriculum could be built.

I've contemplated getting one to assemble.

But I'd rather do one "from scratch", so that I know what all of the wires are for and what all of the components do.

I don't even contemplate it right now as I don't have the $$$ to get the tool set and components needed.

Yes, the Micro-KIM is in this kind of niche too. But like the Compukit, which I started with, soldering it together is a task without much educational content - I had the schematics and gained physical familiarity with the various chips, but I suspect physically wiring a bus might be - might be - more valuable. The thing is, too much manual labour becomes tedious, and if you make a mistake you have to find and fix. Without someone to guide you, that could be dispiriting. Then again, it keeps the cost down. (See the Fignition too, for an example of a built-to-price minimal system with a helpful community)

Having the board in front of me and the schematics (or indeed, block diagram) to reference was valuable.

Those USB to serial adapters are excellent - Garth misses the point somewhat I think - you get a serial interface and your PC or laptop becomes a glass teletype. It's the simplest possible peripheral for that purpose and cheaper than QWERTY. (Hooking up a USB keyboard is a totally different problem - even a PS/2 keyboard is probably more difficult and that only gives you input.)

In order of increasing complexity then, you could have
1 - buttons and LEDs as a front panel
2 - keypad and LCD or seven-segment display
3 - serial-over-USB to a host machine
4 - onboard or PS/2 keyboard and VGA or RF out
(I'd go for 1 or 3 personally. The Fignition uses keypad and RF which illustrates the solution space.)

So, alkopop79, what's your current thinking? It's your project!

Cheers
Ed