6502.org Forum  Projects  Code  Documents  Tools  Forum
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 6:07 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 am
Posts: 37
Location: teh interwebz
Paganini wrote:
barnacle wrote:
my Master's dissertation was on how to ensure words that don't exist are correctly spelt (!).
Spelt is a grain.

(U.S. reader / writer over here! Did you do that on purpose?) :D


I'm American, and use "spelt" in the sense of "spelled" all the time. I guess I'm particularly fond of archaisms though, especially British ligatures as in "foetid" and "faeces." Enough s**tposting though. :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 am
Posts: 37
Location: teh interwebz
Walls of text make my eyes glaze over. When I write long sentences, I'll often begin a new paragraph after as few as one or two sentences.

Whitespace is important. There's a reason 50% of a typical printed page is blank margins. There's also what I call "verbal whitespace." Many Millennials and Zoomers on YouTube talk very fast, and remove all of the pauses in editing, resulting in a continuous ten-minute stream of speech. I get listening fatigue from that very quickly and quit watching. Breathe, kid.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:24 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:49 pm
Posts: 983
Location: Potsdam, DE
And it's a problem I'm having in another long-term project: scanning my entire collection of books into electronic form (I have no qualms if scans are already available, but I refuse to pay again for works I already own).

The problem is subtle: OCR programs either produce a complete replication of a page, down to font size and position, or simply transcribe text as a block. The first type tend to produce output which basically breaks when converted to epub files (e.g. individual styles for each line in a book!); the second loses the semantic information implicit in text position and spacing on a page. The white space is important!

Annoyingly, ABBYY have chosen to end support on my lifetime subscription and I can no longer transfer it to a new machine. It had an output which included the position of a line on a page so empty lines could be inferred. Tesseract 4, which is better than ABBYY in terms of recognition, simply returns text a line at a time, doesn't always return empty lines, and requires an amount of post-recognition processing to regain that lost semantic content.

As I said, white space is important. End of paragraph is not the same as end of line that happened to end with punctuation, and it's not the same as end of scene.

Neil


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 am
Posts: 37
Location: teh interwebz
While I enjoy writing, and may even be good at writing clear, concise documentation, my main concern in taking on any kind of creative project would be scope creep and moving goalposts. That happened to me more often than I cared for in my Web development career. No matter how detailed the initial agreement, customers would often be dissatisfied with the results of the agreed upon plan, or say what they really wanted was something other than what I understood them to say, or wanted something more that they hadn't considered. For free, of course.

I'm a fan of everything having a clearly defined beginning, middle, and end. Of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't like committing to something, only to find out once I'm in it that it's going to drag on for longer than anticipated. I like to deliver what was promised as quickly as possible, then move on to the next thing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8543
Location: Southern California
No True Scotsman wrote:
I'm a fan of everything having a clearly defined beginning, middle, and end. Of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't like committing to something, only to find out once I'm in it that it's going to drag on for longer than anticipated. I like to deliver what was promised as quickly as possible, then move on to the next thing.

That would be like writing a newspaper article, where the idea is to get the most important stuff in first, then start filling in details and possible reasons, so that however far the reader gets before moving on, he will have read the most important material.  A novel is very different, and may spend the first pages setting a scene, before even starting into any real events or setting up a plot—you know, the old "Lace curtains graced the window of the sitting room, as the sun, now low in the sky, beamed across the room.  The occasional bird chirp was heard clearly from the yard.  The firewood was mostly cut and stacked for the winter.  Last winter was pretty harsh; but preparations should be better this year.  The cat slept nearby <...>" and on and on it goes.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 am
Posts: 37
Location: teh interwebz
I'd venture to say technical writing is more akin to writing a newspaper article than writing a novel. Instead of painting a mental image, a technical document would more likely include unambiguous charts and tables.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:12 pm
Posts: 741
No True Scotsman wrote:
I'd venture to say technical writing is more akin to writing a newspaper article than writing a novel. Instead of painting a mental image, a technical document would more likely include unambiguous charts and tables.

If only newspaper articles actually did that... :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:21 am
Posts: 718
Location: Texas
No True Scotsman wrote:
Many Millennials and Zoomers on YouTube talk very fast, and remove all of the pauses in editing, resulting in a continuous ten-minute stream of speech. I get listening fatigue from that very quickly and quit watching. Breathe, kid.


Haha, I cannot watch most videos on Youtube without 1.5x or 2x speed now! It's just all so... slow normally. Only a very very few can I watch at 1x speed.

Chad


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8505
Location: Midwestern USA
No True Scotsman wrote:
Whitespace is important.

That being the case, where has it all gone?

HTML renders consecutive instances of whitespace as a single instance, which has resulted in the loss of the double-space that is supposed to separate consecutive sentences. For individuals with less-than-optimum close-range sight (e.g., moi), that loss of double-spacing between sentences makes reading more difficult, especially with small font sizes. I routinely have problems with reading posts here due to insufficient spacing between consecutive sentences...the end-of-sentence punctuation gets visually lost.

On sites where HTML can be inserted into a post, I routinely add &nbsp;&nbsp; between my sentences so I can more-easily read what I’ve written. Doing so also makes it easier for others who have vision difficulties.

Today’s generation has gotten linguistically lazy, thanks to technology, as well as the loss of face-to-face communication skills. That lamentable trend is bound to find its way into documentation.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 am
Posts: 37
Location: teh interwebz
MyBB automatically inserts &nbsp; when the user types more than one consecutive space. Does vBulletin not do that?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 am
Posts: 37
Location: teh interwebz
Another thing I've noticed about both American and British young people is that they put the emphasis on a different syllable in words like "contribute" and "distribute" than we used to. It just sounds odd.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 3:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 8505
Location: Midwestern USA
No True Scotsman wrote:
Another thing I've noticed about both American and British young people is that they put the emphasis on a different syllable in words like "contribute" and "distribute" than we used to. It just sounds odd.

It’s not odd, just wrong.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:09 am
Posts: 8543
Location: Southern California
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
HTML renders consecutive instances of whitespace as a single instance, which has resulted in the loss of the double-space that is supposed to separate consecutive sentences.  For individuals with less-than-optimum close-range sight (e.g., moi), that loss of double-spacing between sentences makes reading more difficult, especially with small font sizes.  I routinely have problems with reading posts here due to insufficient spacing between consecutive sentences...the end-of-sentence punctuation gets visually lost.

On sites where HTML can be inserted into a post, I routinely add &nbsp;&nbsp; between my sentences so I can more-easily read what I’ve written.  Doing so also makes it easier for others who have vision difficulties.

Definitely.  The programmers who came up with gobbling up the second space between sentences were obviously too young to have taken the two years of high-school typing which used to be required.  I can imagine a couple of things that put an end to it.  In typing class, if we didn't put two spaces separating sentences, we'd get marked down.  Even after seeing only a single space for so many years now, I sometimes still have to back up and read something again because it didn't make sense, because I ran them together because the second space was lacking.  It causes problems!  It's the worst when an abbreviation that needs a period after it is the last word in a sentence, and there's not an additional period to end the sentence, and then the next sentence starts with something that's never capitalized, like eBay, iPad, etc., or always capitalized, like someone's name.  Someone on another forum let us in on the secret to putting two spaces between sentences here: you make the first one a character 00A0 which shows up as a space, but gets interpreted as another letter and not eliminated.  So you see I've been doing that for the last six months or more.  I also use it as a non-breaking space (like &nbsp; in HTML) to keep LDA #8 together on one line for example, so it doesn't get separated if someone's screen would tend to wrap at the wrong place.

Another thing is that in the standard block format we supposedly use, paragraph breaks are required to be a full blank line, not just a teensy bit of additional space like Wikipedia puts between paragraphs.  These were not requirements of typewriters, as they were more capable than young people today realize.  Yes, you could do things like go in vertical increments of as little as 1/4 or 1/3 line up and down, so you could do subscripts and superscripts.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:42 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:49 pm
Posts: 983
Location: Potsdam, DE
Be cautious about double spaces between sentences. The typesetter would argue that it should not be a double-space but rather a *wider* space.

A sensible document processor like LyX won't even let you type in two successive spaces, but will automatically maintain a proper proportion with a wider gap between sentences than between words. (Another convention it enforces[1] is that of the first paragraph of a chapter having no indent while all successive paragraphs are indented, and no extra vertical space between paragraphs. Yet it is equally valid - particularly in a multi-column magazine article, for example, or on a forum such as this where the page width is undefined - to use vertical space between paragraphs and no indentation.)

This is of course all culturally defined. It's only recently - in terms of history; a few hundred years - that English clearly separated individual words. How the word fits on a page is a matter of convention and taste; two spaces appeared only with the invention of the typewriter and then only because Scholes/Remington came up with a single space bar (and other simplifications like no zero or one digits).

But the critical importance in getting words on paper is getting people to read them. The typesetting chosen should not get in the way and if possible it should make the content easier to understand; ideally I would suggest that you shouldn't notice it at all!

Neil

[1] Unless you tell it otherwise, of course. Its main aim is consistency of style, and not the bizarre mish-mash that can occur when people manage individual characters in a 'word processor'. Word processors do the same to words as food processors do to food: in unskilled hands the result in either case can be completely inedible.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:26 am
Posts: 88
Location: UK
Line break after every sentence!

(from https://xkcd.com/1285/)

_________________
probably the youngest person on this forum


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: