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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:41 pm 
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Paganini wrote:
Had a bit of a setback today; it seems like my DS1813 reset controller is broken. Any time it's plugged in RESET\ is held low.

I’ve never had a problem with the DS1813.  Did you check VCC at pin 2 to verify that it is above the reset threshold?  If VCC at that pin is low, the 1813 may/will not come out of reset.  Also, did you verify that pin 3 is solidly grounded?

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I'll hope that my good old G65SC02 is forgiving.

As long as reset is held down for at least six full clock cycles after the oscillator has stabilized, and the transition from low to high on the reset line is fast and clean, you shouldn’t have any trouble.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:05 pm 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Did you check VCC at pin 2 to verify that it is above the reset threshold?  If VCC at that pin is low, the 1813 may/will not come out of reset.
Good call, BDD. I had checked continuity but not voltage. It turns out Vcc was quite low in that area of the board; now it isn't and the DS1813 is working again! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:27 pm 
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Paganini wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Did you check VCC at pin 2 to verify that it is above the reset threshold?  If VCC at that pin is low, the 1813 may/will not come out of reset.
Good call, BDD. I had checked continuity but not voltage. It turns out Vcc was quite low in that area of the board; now it isn't and the DS1813 is working again! :D

While I was in the Navy and attending electronics school, one of the instructors had what he called a “look at the gas gauge” checklist for troubleshooting malfunctioning gear.  It was based on the idea that if your car stops running, you check the easy things before assuming engine failure, such as, “are you out of gas?”  :D  That philosophy has served me very well over the decades.

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 3:57 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Paganini wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Did you check VCC at pin 2 to verify that it is above the reset threshold?  If VCC at that pin is low, the 1813 may/will not come out of reset.
Good call, BDD. I had checked continuity but not voltage. It turns out Vcc was quite low in that area of the board; now it isn't and the DS1813 is working again! :D

While I was in the Navy and attending electronics school, one of the instructors had what he called a “look at the gas gauge” checklist for troubleshooting malfunctioning gear.  It was based on the idea that if your car stops running, you check the easy things before assuming engine failure, such as, “are you out of gas?”  :D  That philosophy has served me very well over the decades.


Has somewhat evolved in the world of tech support: "Are you sure it's plugged in?" Being the first thing I would ask when I worked at Dell tech support in the late 90s.


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 5:48 am 
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Yuri wrote:
Has somewhat evolved in the world of tech support: "Are you sure it's plugged in?" Being the first thing I would ask when I worked at Dell tech support in the late 90s.


I found asking that tended to get the 'of course it is' response, even if it wasn't... on the other hand, asking them to remove the mains cable (at both ends) and then replace it would often result in an embarrassed 'oh, it's working now...' :D

Neil


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 9:21 am 
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barnacle wrote:
Yuri wrote:
Has somewhat evolved in the world of tech support: "Are you sure it's plugged in?" Being the first thing I would ask when I worked at Dell tech support in the late 90s.


I found asking that tended to get the 'of course it is' response, even if it wasn't... on the other hand, asking them to remove the mains cable (at both ends) and then replace it would often result in an embarrassed 'oh, it's working now...' :D

Neil


Is it plugged in? Is it turned on? Have you tried turning it off and on again ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UT8RkSmN4k

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2024 6:08 pm 
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And the perennial cure for all that ails Microsoft Windows: “Did you reboot the computer?”

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2024 12:20 pm 
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Paganini wrote:
Had a bit of a setback today; it seems like my DS1813 reset controller is broken. Any time it's plugged in RESET\ is held low. That was my last one (I only bought 5 because they're kind of expensive) so I had to rejigger that area of the board a bit to use Garth's reset circuit from the Primer. I didn't have the exact resistor values, but I got as close as I could (22k and 4.7k resistors, instead of 27k and 5.6k) but it *seems* to be working OK. I'll hope that my good old G65SC02 is forgiving.



Ben Eater only uses a 0.1uF cap I believe. He has said that he needs to redo that reset circuit, but he's only got a million-something views on youtube of his board doing cool things. Ya know, little things :) The point is that you shouldn't need super specific values, though I do take everything Garth says as gold. Glad it was fixed with BDD's suggestion though.

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Anyway, the good part is, it worked first try! I haven't fully tested the build yet; I just put a NOP ROM in. But, I got a clean reset, read the reset vector ($8000) jumped to it, and started executing NOPs. So that means I didn't make any major wiring mistakes. I always feel really good when a project works right away and I don't have to do a lot of error hunting.


Small victories are important. They keep you going. Though, having it work the first time is more than just a 'small' victory. Great job!

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This is probably a good time to reiterate how much I like having Hoglet's decoder available for this kind of thing. I can immediately use it as a kind of makeshift output device; no messing around with LCDs or VIA LEDs. I can just plug in a little doodad and immediately see in detail if my board is doing what I told it to. It's a great resource!


Good point. That would tell you a LOT more than just a probe or scope.

Good looking board by the way. It's interesting how you actually DON'T have a jumble of wires as usual with breadboards. It's a lot of wires, but not jumbled. They seem organized and honestly because they are so thin you can still see everything going on. You have used the strengths of the breadboard and wire-wrap to create a good design!

Thanks for the update!

Chad


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2024 12:35 pm 
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sburrow wrote:
Paganini wrote:
Had a bit of a setback today; it seems like my DS1813 reset controller is broken. Any time it's plugged in RESET\ is held low. That was my last one (I only bought 5 because they're kind of expensive) so I had to rejigger that area of the board a bit to use Garth's reset circuit from the Primer. I didn't have the exact resistor values, but I got as close as I could (22k and 4.7k resistors, instead of 27k and 5.6k) but it *seems* to be working OK. I'll hope that my good old G65SC02 is forgiving.



Ben Eater only uses a 0.1uF cap I believe. He has said that he needs to redo that reset circuit, but he's only got a million-something views on youtube of his board doing cool things. Ya know, little things :) The point is that you shouldn't need super specific values, though I do take everything Garth says as gold. Glad it was fixed with BDD's suggestion though


When I put my 6507 board together I too used a 0.1µF capacitor - figuring that if it was good enough for 30 million Atari 2600s it was good enough for me.

And it was, although not 100% reliable and I sometimes needed to push the reset button ... that is until I plugged in a modern 65C22 - then it became 100% reliable from power on.

Weird little things.

-Gordon

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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2024 5:43 pm 
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sburrow wrote:
Good looking board by the way. It's interesting how you actually DON'T have a jumble of wires as usual with breadboards. It's a lot of wires, but not jumbled. They seem organized and honestly because they are so thin you can still see everything going on. You have used the strengths of the breadboard and wire-wrap to create a good design!


Thanks Chad! When I started, I had in mind that the construction method would just be a kind of interesting novelty. But now I really like it, both for the aesthetic reasons you just mentioned, and also for the speed / ease of construction.

In other news, I did some basic testing of my ACIAs. The "Rockwell" ones all seem fine, except that two of them lost pins when I pulled them back out of the breadboard. The "CMD" ones are at least actual 6551s; 4 of them work, 1 of them spews garbage as soon as it is enabled. I don't really trust them because they look so wonky, so I will probably stick with one of the Rockwell ones.

When I say "testing," what I mean is that I was able to set up a 3-wire serial connection with my old Windows XP laptop and echo back what I type from its terminal emulator. I haven't done anything to check the current draw to see whether or not they're actually CMOS. I may do that after lunch!

Edit: I did that. The Rockwell ones seem to draw around 2mA. The "CMD" ones draw 1mA, but don't work at all when their power supply goes through my DMM!

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