Yeah, we all heard those. I bought chips for stupid good price. Each cost me $2 apiece shipped, on eBay. From China, naturally. Listed as new W65C816S, but very used with blobs of solder. And it only gets better from there.

I bought five of them. Three arrived in a DIP-42 package. I am not aware of any WDC chips in DIP-42 package, and won't know where to even look for such a pinout.

We'll use this resource for further analysis:
https://www.aeri.com/counterfeit-electronic-component-detection/

Let's dig in.





They were also very dusty, I'm guessing sanding dust.

So, is there any chance these are actually good? I mean they almost certainly remarked... Those 42-pin chips some busted EEPROMS on the inside, like completely fake?

I knew there was some risk when I was buying, but I didn't expect to have it this bad. Lesson learned.
I will likely get my money back, but still annoying.

So can you recommend a good WDC distributor where I can get the real thing on the cheap?

Thanks! Feel free to have some fun at my expense.

PS Here's where I bought these suspects:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-W65C816S8 ... 1015567406
(I had additional discounts at checkout)

Welcome, r00tb33r

42 pins. That's ... well, it's just ...

... good for a laugh, I guess!

For something more realistic (albeit less entertaining), see the thread 65xx parts sources.

cheers
Jeff

_________________
In 1988 my 65C02 got six new registers and 44 new full-speed instructions!
https://laughtonelectronics.com/Arcana/ ... mmary.html

The real WDC '816 retails for $8 each on Mouser at the moment, with discounts for multiple orders. IMHO, trying to save money by answering random eBay adverts is a false economy, especially on a part so frequently counterfeited.

There *is* apparently a genuine WDC distributor who advertises on eBay, but you should look him up specifically instead of searching for the part.

Wish I had known that Chinese are into that 8/16-bit stuff. I knew about component counterfeiting in general, just never figured a hobbyist CPU would be such a target.

I don't pretend to understand the criminal mind in any detail, but the fact that WDC is able to maintain a business of producing new 65xx family chips suggests a market big enough to target. Contrast that with, say, the lack of current production of any direct descendant of the 6809 or 6309 (despite their use in at least one major line of home micros and a fair number of arcade cabinets). Indeed, most fake 6502s tend to be passed off as a newish WDC part, while if you're lucky you'll actually get an ancient NMOS 6502.

I hope you'll give the eBay seller the worst of feedback!

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

And for $2. 2 whole dollars.

By my reckoning, 42 pins is 5% extra... it might be amusing to try to see which pins are inputs, outputs, power supplies. There might be ways of doing that - I'm thinking resistance, capacitance, diode nature.

I would request a refund. They should not be allowed to get away with such nonsense.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the retailer or who they buy the parts from that's to blame, but either way you should not have to pay for this and allowing them to get away with it only encourages the guilty party.

42 pin 65C816 though. Might be worth $2 for the novelty of it.

_________________
Bill

The date codes alone tell me these are counterfeits.

As for a source for the genuine article, it all depends on your location in this world.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

DIP-42 is not rare but also not common. A quick Google search turned up an answer that actually makes logical sense, and that DIP-42 is most commonly used for types of ROM (most commonly EPROM), with the 2 extra pins obviously being 2 more address lines for larger addressable capacity (vs more common DIP-40). There are also some obscure MCUs that used that package. In all I'd guess that they are used ROM chips that were pulled from recycled boards, sanded down and remarked as fake WDC chips. Looking up a pinout for DIP-42 EPROM should turn up a common pinout, and it's probably it, but honestly I don't think it's even worth the time to check.

I was refunded within a few hours without question, no message. What baited me was some 300+ units sold on that listing, and feedback for those did not indicate fakes. I honestly thought I'd be getting NOS chips, which is perfectly fine by me. These will make a good keychain I guess. Other ideas?


Are date codes week number and year? Any code letters?

I'm in the United States. I like DigiKey for all my projects because their shipping rates are great. Sadly WDC is not among the manufacturer's whose products they sell.
https://www.digikey.com/en/supplier-centers#W

I also like Jameco, they were a one-stop-shop for all replacement chips in the boat anchor Commodore 64 I was restoring, the prices were good and the shipping was fine also. They don't carry WDC processors either.

I avoid Mouser whenever I can, they are more expensive and their shipping rates just plain suck, and they take longer to process orders than the two above. If I shop there I usually wait to accumulate a large order to justify their shipping.

Actually, I've been quite happy with Mouser over the past 15+ years. I also buy from Digikey, Newark, Allied and some specialty shops, depending on what I'm buying parts for.

So yes, Mouser has a minimum shipping fee, so I also tend to get a somewhat larger list before I pull the trigger on processing an order, but they are generally quite fast with processing and shipping.

So, as I've seen many threads here with common stories about counterfeit chips and the like, I think there should be a "read me first" note that goes out to everyone who registers on the forum. Anyone who intends to start designing and building a 65xx based system should really consider buying a handful of new chips from a reputable source. The time savings alone is worth the cost, vs trying to figure out what "jo-blo" sent you and attempting to figure out why it doesn't work as you think it should.

Minimum parts to buy would be the CPU of course, a 32KB SRAM, 32KB EEPROM, some 74HCxx logic chips, a good can oscillator, a reset chip, some caps, resistors and perhaps some sockets. It's not going to cost that much and at least you'll have known good parts and a much better chance at getting something that actually works.

Good luck on you projects... hope you have some quick success once you have known working parts.

_________________
Regards, KM
https://github.com/floobydust

The first and second digits are the year, the third and fourth are the week of the year. The date code should be preceded with and followed by alpha characters. The part number itself tells you the chip specifics, including the process geometry.


Mouser is the official WDC distributor in the States.


My company has done business with Mouser for some 25 years and has never had a reason to complain about their prices or service.

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!