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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:09 am 
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i didn't mean to imply that Crappy but functional was your goal, just that the backend was likely to be functional before being fully done.

also it's good to hear that you're still around and working on it! hoping to seeing it being put on github (and offically added to the VBCC repo) sometime in the future!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:17 am 
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Proxy wrote:
i didn't mean to imply that Crappy but functional was your goal, just that the backend was likely to be functional before being fully done.

...hoping to seeing it being put on github...

Boo!  Hiss!  :D

Github is a royal pain.  I can never find what I am looking for on that mess of a website.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:52 am 
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How so? I mean sure the search function is horrible and could be a lot better, but beyond that I never ran into any issues with the site. Maybe the site just isn't for you :lol:
Anyways now I'm interested, what would you propose as an alternative with similar functionality to github?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:44 am 
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Proxy wrote:
How so? I mean sure the search function is horrible and could be a lot better, but beyond that I never ran into any issues with the site. Maybe the site just isn't for you :lol:
Anyways now I'm interested, what would you propose as an alternative with similar functionality to github?

viewtopic.php?p=80093#p80093
Yes, the search might be the biggest problem.  I can never find what I'm looking for in someone's project.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:44 am 
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Proxy wrote:
How so?  I mean sure the search function is horrible and could be a lot better...

You’ve answered your question.  :D

Quote:
Anyways now I'm interested, what would you propose as an alternative with similar functionality to github?

I actually don’t know what the functionality is of github—I’m not a user of remote storage.  So I don’t know what could be an alternative.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:45 pm 
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Fortunately, I don't think too many people are seeing these difficulties, as there are so many thriving open source projects on github and gitlab.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:39 pm 
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BigEd wrote:
Fortunately, I don't think too many people are seeing these difficulties, as there are so many thriving open source projects on github and gitlab.


The repository search feature in the GitHub web site is fairly good for finding repositories. The search for finding files within a repository by name is OK. Finding something within a file using the browser's own search capability is fine.

What is somewhat lacking from within the web site is performing a search for text across files within a repo. It is more of a problem on larger projects with substantial directory hierarchies, where you don't know which file(s) to look in. I probably run into this maybe once or twice a year, using an open source library where some documentation was unclear. When I do, I simply download the ZIP of the repository, or clone the repo to my local machine, and then use Notepad++'s Find in Files feature.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:50 pm 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:
Proxy wrote:
How so? I mean sure the search function is horrible and could be a lot better, but beyond that I never ran into any issues with the site. Maybe the site just isn't for you :lol:
Anyways now I'm interested, what would you propose as an alternative with similar functionality to github?

viewtopic.php?p=80093#p80093
Yes, the search might be the biggest problem.  I can never find what I'm looking for in someone's project.


Searching in a project I usually don't use. If I need to find something IN the code, I just clone it and do a search with standard Un*x tools or Visual Studio.

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
I actually don’t know what the functionality is of github—I’m not a user of remote storage.  So I don’t know what could be an alternative.


Git, much like CVS, SVN, et. al., is a source code repository and change management system. All Github basically is, is a fancy front end to a git server. You don't need to use Github to use git, and nothing stops you from making your own git server for private source code tracking.

Github pretty much just offers the fact that it is already setup and can easily host public repositories that you can share with other people w/o having to hassle with maintaining a server yourself.

Gitlab is just a competitor of Github.
Bitbucket is the Atlasian version of it.

SourceForge uses SVN and CVS IIRC, but is basically the same deal.

I'm pretty sure there are various other sites for the other various options for other revision control management systems.

At the end of the day it boils down to:
A public place to post source code that others can come and view and make contributions to that source code.

It wouldn't be any different than rolling all the source code files up in a tarball, and throwing them up on a FTP/HTTP server for download, and then accepting diff files when someone wants to submit a change. This just provides a bit nicer automation around it.


Last edited by Yuri on Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:51 pm 
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Good point - you can always fetch and then work locally.

But there's a search box which readily prompts for searching within a repo. It's pretty visible, especially when you've used the site a few times. I don't know about accessibility for those using screen readers, text browsers, or with vision problems, but as a major site owned by a very major company I would expect it to be accessible. In fact the very common keyboard shortcut "/" puts you in just the right place to start typing. The common keyboard shortcut "?" brings up a pageful of shortcuts.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:52 pm 
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Yuri wrote:
GARTHWILSON wrote:
Proxy wrote:
How so? I mean sure the search function is horrible and could be a lot better, but beyond that I never ran into any issues with the site. Maybe the site just isn't for you :lol:
Anyways now I'm interested, what would you propose as an alternative with similar functionality to github?

viewtopic.php?p=80093#p80093
Yes, the search might be the biggest problem.  I can never find what I'm looking for in someone's project.

Searching in a project I usually don't use. If I need to find something IN the code, I just clone it and do a search with standard Un*x tools or Visual Studio.

Here's my first problem with it.  Someone gives the link to their repo, and you see the first level of the file tree.  The lines there have file names and folder names, but don't tell you what any of them are.  Where you'd expect a description to the right, it only tells you what the last edit was for.  So I stab a guess and pick a line that might be what I'm looking for, and it leads to another level with more files or folders listed, and the problem repeats.  I go down the various branches...oops, no, that's not it...back up...try this one... nope, that's something else...How 'bout this one?...again, no... back up...and so on.  After many minutes of this, I give up.  I have access to the 6502.org github, and I have a similar problem, even though by now I should be familiar with it.  Even when I know the name of a file to do a search for (which I never do on someone else's repo), I still often have trouble, and I have to email Mike and ask for a link.

Then when I do get to someone's source code, I hate the way it's shown.  I want black text, not gray, not multi-colored, with column 1 on the left, ie, no line numbers there (they should be in a footer bar telling where you've placed the cursor) and no other space.  There should be no line wrap in source code.  If a line is really long, I'd rather do side-to-side scrolling or just turn the font size down enough to get the whole line in the window.  I could download it and use a different text editor or something, but I shouldn't have to download all this stuff to look at it once and try to answer a forum question.

Now github wants 2FA, and none of the 2FA options it offers are acceptable to me.  The preferred one would be that it send me an email with a one-time-use access code, like other sites do.  Another possibility is calling me with a voice message of such an access code.  Those are not options though.  I do not, and will not, use a smartphone or buy other equipment.  Fortunately logging in is not required to view someone else's repo though.

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What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:09 pm 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:

...

Here's my first problem with it.  Someone gives the link to their repo, and you see the first level of the file tree.  The lines there have file names and folder names, but don't tell you what any of them are.  Where you'd expect a description to the right, it only tells you what the last edit was for.


Well, I don't really see that so much as github's fault per say, git doesn't collect information on what a file is for; it only collects the change comments.

I don't know of any revision control that does collect that kind of information. (Maybe one does? :shrug:)

While I could see that being a useful feature in a revision control system, I do wonder how many developers would actually use such a system seeing that many (especially today) seem to be completely adverse to writing documentation about their code.

Github could certainly add something like that to their interface, though it would have to be done outside of git. As, like I said, git doesn't collect that sort of information about the file.

TL;DR: You're really at the mercy of the developer if they decide to provide a source code map or something.

Quote:
So I stab a guess and pick a line that might be what I'm looking for, and it leads to another level with more files or folders listed, and the problem repeats.  I go down the various branches...oops, no, that's not it...back up...try this one... nope, that's something else...How 'bout this one?...again, no... back up...and so on.  After many minutes of this, I give up.  I have access to the 6502.org github, and I have a similar problem, even though by now I should be familiar with it.  Even when I know the name of a file to do a search for (which I never do on someone else's repo), I still often have trouble, and I have to email Mike and ask for a link.


The file navigation can be a bit tricky, especially if you get lost in different branches of the code.

I've never really used the per file search in Github as it tends to get overwhelming fast as it is actually searching way more than I want it to. Hence why I just clone the code, and search it with the more familiar Posix and Windows tools I have at my disposal.

Quote:
Then when I do get to someone's source code, I hate the way it's shown.  I want black text, not gray, not multi-colored, with column 1 on the left, ie, no line numbers there (they should be in a footer bar telling where you've placed the cursor) and no other space.  There should be no line wrap in source code.  If a line is really long, I'd rather do side-to-side scrolling or just turn the font size down enough to get the whole line in the window.  I could download it and use a different text editor or something, but I shouldn't have to download all this stuff to look at it once and try to answer a forum question.


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All that aside, how you want to see the code formatted is going to be different from the next person, so there's no one size that fits all here. My best suggestion is again, clone the source code, open it up in your editor/IDE of choice where you have a lot more control over how it's presented to you.

I mean, at this point we could get into the details about how different people like to tab and space their code for formatting. I guess I don't see that as a big deal as I can just download the code and run it through a program like astyle 99% of the time and get it into a format I can read.

Quote:
Now github wants 2FA, and none of the 2FA options it offers are acceptable to me.  The preferred one would be that it send me an email with a one-time-use access code, like other sites do.  Another possibility is calling me with a voice message of such an access code.  Those are not options though.  I do not, and will not, use a smartphone or buy other equipment.  Fortunately logging in is not required to view someone else's repo though.


That being said, the lack of an email option is totally on Microsoft. (They should at least offer the option to send the code via SMS which can work with any basic cell phone, not just smart phones)

Given my anger at how they treat the logins on people's personal machine I could get on a huge soapbox about how I detest some of the "security" decisions about what Microsoft does. But this isn't the place for such.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:44 pm 
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Yuri, thanks for the suggestion about the "Raw" option.  It definitely remedies that problem.  The major problem left is still the matter of finding things in the tree when there are no descriptions of what the various files and folders are.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:47 pm 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:
Yuri, thanks for the suggestion about the "Raw" option.  It definitely remedies that problem.  The major problem left is still the matter of finding things in the tree when there are no descriptions of what the various files and folders are.


Sure thing! I hope it helps!

And I think file descriptions would be an excellent addition to any source code repository system. Expanding on this, in the nature of historical code bases I could also see it being useful having a way to annotate historical source code without modifying that file itself (to preserve it's historical integrity, but still providing away for people to learn and share ideas about that code)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:02 am 
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Yuri wrote:
That being said, the lack of an email option is totally on Microsoft...

I forgot to mention earlier that is another reason why I don’t and would not use Github to store anything.  I don’t trust Microsoft or anything they control.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:15 am 
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This. I'm still waiting for the final phase of their usual 'embrace, extend, extinguish' cycle of not-invented-here software.

Neil


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