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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:54 am 
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barrym95838 wrote:
oscilloscope wrote:
i feel i am close. , and the least significate bit would be 5 on big endian ? , and the most sign most significate bit on little endian is 1 ?

I think you're very close, but you're incorrectly fixating on bits instead of bytes. Read BDD's example above very carefully again.

There was another twist when 16-bit processors got into the mix (see middle-endian or The NUXI problem), but you probably don't need to dig that deeply to gain a working understanding.


I had to deal with that a little at my day job, writing some code for reading one of the fields in a file format that had originated on the VAX. The specification document for the file format didn't mention any details about byte ordering for any of the fields, just data type and length in bytes.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:46 pm 
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So i have been reading many books since the last time I logged in and burning the midnight oil staying up late to trying and work this out. i turned over to the " an introduction to microcomputers volume 0"
which has a section about binary, and binary numbering system. , Now i have to stress maths is not my strong point and i have struggled a lot through out the years and reading this book is no exception when i read through out the book , i get a conflict with what i have learnt through cisco network training in the past to this is due to me knowing that there is 8 bits to a byte - & 255 is the max that can sit within a byte of data. and the 1-128 numbering system for binary , the book uses words that i do not normally use , such as "base x base" , "increment" , "digit" or "increment a digit to one less then the number base "

this may all sound like normal words. its terminology that is getting me , today i watched a video on YouTube and it was almost on par with the page i was on. and then it clicked regarding "base x base" the term which was used is to the power of so 0^2 = 1 , 2^1=2 , 2^2=4 2^3=8 etc it was incrementing the decimal location 1,2 3 etc!! (mind blown)

then there was a section on " MSB or LSB " which was used on sums which where had remainders in the sum for example: 75/2=35.5 & the .5 would the remainder which would be a 1 on binary. I wasn't sure that piece was relevant but it might be handy to know in the future or might shine a light on something else I don't understand.

back to the book , then i read the part with in the book which mentioned about high order bytes & low order bytes i understand this depending on what way the sum is written out from left to >>> right. the usual way to read then the that would be classes "high to low" , if it was backwards then "low to high"

i am still reading the book over and over again. i really thought i had it at 2am this morning.

am i close?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:13 pm 
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    0^2 = 1

Uh...zero raised to any non-zero power is zero. On the other hand, 2^0 = 1.

I'd have to say after reading your most recent post you are in need of a remedial math course. Frankly, I'm not sure why you are here. You have completely ignored the advice and help that has been offered, especially the recommendation that you NOT think in terms of bits.

This is not complicated stuff. Any reasonably attentive junior-high math student would know it.

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Last edited by BigDumbDinosaur on Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:30 pm 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Uh...zero raised to any power is zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_to_the_power_of_zero
Grumpy much?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:52 pm 
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barrym95838 wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Uh...zero raised to any power is zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_to_the_power_of_zero
Grumpy much?

Not much. :D

I should have clarified that 0^0 is an odd case (I edited my post to qualify the exponent as being non-zero). In my days as a math student (1950s), 0^0 was said to be undefined. I guess the new math now says otherwise. On an eight-bit data bus, 0^0 would imply there are no data lines. :shock: On the other hand, Thoroughbred BASIC says 0^0 = 1. Thoroughbred also says 0^2 = 0. 0^0 is a strange expression, alright.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:16 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
    0^2 = 1

Uh...zero raised to any non-zero power is zero. On the other hand, 2^0 = 1.

I'd have to say after reading your most recent post you are in need of a remedial math course. Frankly, I'm not sure why you are here. You have completely ignored the advice and help that has been offered, especially the recommendation that you NOT think in terms of bits.

This is not complicated stuff. Any reasonably attentive junior-high math student would know it.



Do you want some cheese with that whine ?! , dude have a cry else where , i am well aware of my limitations , and i am aware that my maths skills are not great but i am getting there slowly. , and you know what that link out you sent me was for a apple and it wasn't relevant to me i am learning for the c64 , as the same ML works on the 6510! and i did REREAD your exsplaintions and it DIDN'T MAKE SENSE!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:31 am 
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Just take things at your own pace, and please don't get the feeling that you're unwelcome. We know that you're here to learn, not cheat on your homework. I have known some very sharp people who unexpectedly encounter difficulties on certain types of subject matter that may seem obvious to most.

Most of us here aren't real teachers, so the resulting environment might not be the most conducive to learning, but I'd like to think that our hearts are in the right place, even if our manners may not always be. Patience, a healthy sense of humor and a thick skin are your best defenses. Maybe break the tension by tossing an "OK, boomer" back at someone once in awhile ... :) (I'm a couple years too young to be an official boomer, but there are plenty here).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:12 am 
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oscilloscope wrote:
Do you want some cheese with that whine ?! , dude have a cry else where

Firstly, the name isn't “dude.”

Secondly, I don't whine and/or cry. I mostly read, observe and comment. Every so often, I bite...hard.

Thirdly, while I have nearly infinite patience dealing with machines, I have much less dealing with people in general, reason being machines can't think but most people can.

Understanding how the 6502 works with memory is a very basic level of knowledge required to program in assembly language. There is a virtually endless amount of information on that topic, both in books and on-line. Please tap into it...before repeating the same questions. We'd all like to help and some of us are experts on this sort of thing. But, as the old wheeze goes, the Lord helps those who help themselves. Whining about your limited math skills will not help you—improving them will.

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i am well aware of my limitations , and i am aware that my maths skills are not great but i am getting there slowly.

At the risk of being Captain Obvious and Rodney Repeater in a single sentence, good math skills are a prerequisite to designing and/or programming computers. This is especially so in assembly language, which does no hand-holding for you.

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and you know what that link out you sent me was for a apple and it wasn't relevant to me i am learning for the c64 , as the same ML works on the 6510!

Which link was that?

All the Apple ][ series machine use the 6502 or 65C02. The 6510 in the C-64 and the 8502 in the C-128 have the same instruction set as the 6502 and an almost identical hardware architecture. The differences are in memory maps, I/O hardware and the glue logic that ties it all together. Most books that have been written about 6502 assembly language tend to observe those distinctions as a matter of course. However, machine differences are irrelevant when it comes to the 6502 assembly language itself and the way in which the 6502 stores, retrieves and manipulates bytes.

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and i did REREAD your exsplaintions and it DIDN'T MAKE SENSE!!!

I don't know how else to help you. Perhaps someone else here will distill my explanation in a way that is understandable to you. Or, maybe they will write a new explanation. What I described is found in varying forms in all texts that deal with number storage and hexadecimal notation.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:43 pm 
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I think the thing to do here, BDD, if you feel you can't help, is not to try. Leave the thread to those who do wish to try.


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