Breadboard

Just ordered a really nice 2390 point Twin Industries TW-E41-1060 breadboard with a metal backplane and a few jumper wires.
That cost me $26 New-In-Box on ebay, with shipping.
it's probably old stock, Im not certain that changes much and Twin is a mid-range quality supplier.
To get 3x cheap breadboards is about $8. I got a metal backplane and some extra wires from a reputable brand for a little more.

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WDC 65xx and Support Chips

GreatPlainsElectronics has the 65xx chips at low cost, I am going to order a couple or three shortly.
a 6502 and/or 65816, a 6522 (probably) and maybe a few other logic ICs needed for support on these chips.
I also need a few logic ICs, flip-flops, demuxing latches (its latches right?) and similar chips

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Oscillator Options

I am looking at oscillator cans, these are 'plug-and-play' right, I dont need the other components to make them work?
I want a programmable IC oscillator that can adjusted with software, maybe in the future. Right now, I am in the 'make work' stage.
My final system is probably going to run at 12MHz, is there any reason to run at 1MHz? I am probably going to get like, 2 cans, a 1 and 12, or a 3/4 and 12 or such. if Im not single stepping, its not much sense to run at 300 hz or 3000hz, I mean, maybe if I want to blink LEDS? 6MHz is a thought, as is 3MHz as they are easily divided into 12MHz which will probably run at 60Mhz, and the PIC will also then run at 60 or 12 MHz. The GPU on my main project can run in multiples of 12, so 24, 48, 36 and I think there is some trickery to get other rates like 30Mhz or such. It has an internal and wants an external 12Mhz crystal, so thats probably going to be my target speed. The PIC runs at 60Mhz (or upto it) in the first option Im looking at, and upto 16Mhz in the other two or three chips Im looking at that run slower but have more options for security features. It can also clock to 12Mhz easily in that case, so again, Im looking at a 12Mhz crystal/can anyway, it seems to be what ties things together. For testing however, right now, 1Mhz, is okay. I can unplug it, change cans, and turn it back on to run faster. so I can get other crystals later...

some of the old cpu ran at strange numbers; which I liken to baud rate multiples or such.
Is there any good reason to mimic, match or synchronize with those low or baud rate speeds with my chips at this time?
other than a 1Mhz, and a 12Mhz or so, should I get one of the Cans that seems to match the baud rates if Im not planning to use them right away? Do any chip-to-chip functions need those kinds of speeds? Gosh Im always just so wishy-washy, I can never decide one way or the other

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Starter Screen
I am ordering this screen, it is a 16-tone grey LCD display at 160x96 pixels @4-bit. This is ~64kbits per frame yes?
2470-AQM1696A-FLW-FBH-ND
https://www.azdisplays.com/PDF/AQM1696A.pdf
it uses this controller, the ST7528(I believe it is the "P" variant)
https://www.azdisplays.com/PDF/IC/ST7528.pdf

from what I can tell, this module uses 8-bit parallel communication and operates in 6800 mode or possibly you can select 8080 mode instead. I should, be able to run this from a 6522 in a fairly straightforward fashion. This module was selected for several reasons based on my final application.
4-bit grey is one of the supported bitmap modes for my potential gpus
160*5 = 800, 96*5 = 480; these are the current dimensions of my device's screen.
It runs at low power and can utilize low power. It has some onboard VRAM, I believe enough for one frame.
The chip is widely used.
While 160*96 is rarer than 160*100, the final 4 rows are in the '13th page' of ram and may still be present and could be useful.
It was under $15

For my personal purposes, this is an ideal screen for getting started, as anything done here, should translate directly to the final specifications.

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Development Tools
At the moment, I just have a laptop. There are several EEPROM flashers from USB, CH341, and I can probably use that until I build or buy a better one.

I need a good multimeter, and I am looking at a decent used 'scope. Id like a nice Yokogawa, or at least a good Tektronics, LeCroy or Rigel. The old yokogawa, the 1500 series I think, or right after that, you can get a few hundred MHz for under $4-500. They had disc drives and a nice form factor. Give me one of those and my old IBM all-in-one with the 100Mhz Intel Overdrive, the 8525 I think. that would be a nice bench to have. For now, it will be a few months Im sure before I can get a scope. Im not trained in them beyond the very basics, a few hours really, though I can use a multimeter and do PC troubleshooting, so I get the gist.

Id like a 1 GHz and cannot afford one.
A 300-500 Mhz would be okay for the 60Mhz speed my gpu would hit even if the square waves would be a little fuzzy.
Anything 200 Mhz+ is fine for the vast majority of what I will be doing any time soon. 100MHz is almost, not quite, almost as good here.
I would also like a nice lightweight portable analog only scope in the 20-60MHz range for audio stuff, and to basically replace my multimeter. Im not good at using an o'scope, because I've never had one. Id like a nice bench scope and a small one for audio stuff.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

So for where I am now, I think it should be okay. I like circuit bending and tinkering so it will get a lot of use.
Based on what I read, I think I do want to go ahead and get a 1-4MHz Can, it sounds like there would be 'interference' or such trying to use a 12MHz clock on a breadboard. Still not deadset on what speed to get, 1MHz is just kinda nice really, though Id like to be a bit faster for the display...

this was already my plan for layout, I like the backplane for ground as much as I do for having a solid thing they will not move around on. Actual ground wise, its better than the air. Probably. I am trying to not be on mains at all if possible and only run on batteries, usb etc. though a wall wart exists too...



Okay, I'll give that a read too, its a good start. I'll have several questions already I'll ask here or there.


yes it does have a backlight! its a pretty nice module that I think the 6522 can run directly. When I said 6800, I meant this screen uses its communication modes, not SPI, IIC or whatever, it uses 8080 or 6800 communication modes, selected in a register or jumper.
its 8 bit parallel, so on my bench, if the 6522 port A or B runs that, the other one is still free to do other things. Im using 8 bit polled input, so just like an NES controller, Up, Down, Left, Right, Pick, Cancel, Menu and Option or whatever, A,B, Select, Start. The first code after 'copy, read and write' is going to be 'on screen keyboard'. So this only needs read a few times a second really. Im not going for much more than that at first, just proof of concept, then probably to perfboard.

I do need an 18-wire thin-film connector slot to breadboard or breakout board.


I am not even certain I need a UART yet. not this week I dont think, in time, yes, they look handy.

when I can afford one like that, it is a nice one. For the time being, I may need to build a single step counter unit, and flip switches to load the accumulator. I might buy that one, or build one of Plasmo's designs. the CR341 stuff looks ok too for now. A few nice bits in the package anyway.

Ill start on a list of chips next I guess.

Great Plains Electronics still taking orders? I thought the owner has retired. I’ve ordered many 65xx from it, and very satisfied. I sure hope it is still operating.
Bill

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

so after looking around, for my first build on the test bench here, the "proof of concept" is going to use HC series ICs.
I am also planning to run at 1-2 MHz, certainly 5 MHz or less based on what I can order easily. I rather like just getting a nice 1-2 Mhz "Can" for the breadboard stage.

yeah totally. a couple of those corner connections were already in the plan, and I get what you mean about the rails across the middle of the board.
I also looked at several articles, gifs and videos on debouncing and line interference from resonant frequencies and similar topics.
there are some debounce chips iirc, and the method of doing it with discrete components did not look difficult from a glance. "nothing fancy" needs to be done. I was planning on using an old PSU from a kiosk I picked up somewhere. Its a modern switching PSU that uses standard "PC Power Cables" and some molex connectors. It has GND, and 24v, 12v and 5v lines plus a 'battery' line for something or another. There are 3 different connectors, one just has GND and Battery +/-. The other has 24v for some speakers I think, its labeled SND. I might use that when I get to the USB C 20v charger stuff or similar "high voltage" needs. For the moment, I was going to use the connector that has +/-12v, +/- 5v and two GNDs. I was also going to tie a few different places to the metal backplane, not just a corner. I have a really nice metal base plate that came out of a National Weather Service station that had been decommissioned I got from one of my ex-girlfriend's dad. He fixed F-18s on a boat for 20 years and taught electronics. I used to hang out with him and talk shop on service calls at different site. I got a standard server racks that breaks down to a shoe box for storage too. I was told this particular piece of metal would make a good ground plane for electronics work. Looking at it, Im going to say its probably a specific alloy, poured at a certain temperature and cooled a certain way so the metal crystalline matrix is certain size or grain. Im not an welder or blacksmith or anything though. Something about how it feels and sounds in my hands. Its not like a lawnmower blade or scaffolding.

Anyway, tying the TwinIndustries breadboard to a NWS/NOAA radio baseplate in multiple places (and using other bypass and decoupling techniques) might help mitigate (though are unlikely to ameliorate) the problems associated with such hardware. After reading up on Wire Wrap technology, which belongs in an episode of the Outer Limits and about the Twilight Zone of alternate reality, I have great respect for it and the craftsmanship involved. I am currently learning to sew and bake; I plan to stick to breadboards and then probably perfboard or just custom PCBs. There a 'desktop CNC mills' now, and conductive 3d filament, I might try picking up a nice desktop mill for PCB work. Idk, maybe Ill build one the uses a 65xx mcu as a controller.
For the moment, I'll just use the breadboards. Ill stick to HC series CMOS and avoid TTL chips or anything built for high speed. I might try some wire wrap sockets when I move up to faster CMOS technologies; its a lot of extra tooling though.

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Yeah I do not want to hand do my boot sequence with dips, though, it would make that RESET vector easier to modify at start up... something I have a lot of interest in, one of my earliest experiments will be in switching banks of ram or rom.
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So I read all of GARTHWILSON's 6502 Primer and 6502 Interrupt Primer as well as the Potpourri schematics.
Here is my initial parts list. I am sure I am missing a few things; I could not find my electronics kit, I wonder if it is in the storage unit.

• 74hc132
• 65CO2 (and a 65c816)
• 62256 SRAM (Im probably using a different chip)
• 65c22 via
• 27c256 or 28c256 programmable ROM (Im probably using a different chip)
• Oscillator or other clock options (1Mhz Can? maybe bigger as I go)
• 4.7 microfarad capacitor
• Two 10K resistors
• 51 picofarad capacitor
• 51 picofarad capacitor
• 68 Pico farad capacitor
• 47,000 resistor
• 1N4148 D1
• DS1232 (I had found this and wanted to include it then read about people using it here!)
• DS1321 (CMOS Lithium battery controller, might work with above to turn SRAM into NVRAM on main battery fail?)
• 100 microfarad capacitor
• Other flip flops and glue logic code
• various resistors capacitors
• voltage regulator at 5 volts etc
• Inductor for smoothing!!!
• speaker maybe
• some buttons

If I mistyped on my phone or the speech to text got something wrong, let me know. Im ordering parts and such over the weekend from mouser and digikey. It does look like GPE is not answering emails. I read the 6502 primer and IRQ primer. Im going to read them again and take notes.

@GARTHWILSON, do you mind if I copy those pages to a google doc and use the comments feature to ask questions and send you the link?

I use gdocs like everyday. Im setting up googlesheet soon for a 6502 memory map workspace.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

_________________
x86?  We ain't got no x86.  We don't NEED no stinking x86!

it would simplify things a lot if I had some project hosting.

I live in the middle of nowhere and use a cell phone for internet access, I cannot self-host at this time, no rpi3-server or LAMP box.
I am exploring a few options like bytehost or similar free webhost without ads to run a blog and wiki.
I am not quite able to pay for a cheap dedicated server this month, in a few weeks, I might get a $5/month VPS or cheap rackmount.
Something for a blog and a wiki type pages to host the project. I noticed several people had project pages here, I am not certain what is required or if I am far enough along.

Add to tools list:
cheap laptop for under $100
quality multimeter with breadboard probes
web server

I have a series of interrelated projects that will end up sharing a common codebase, hardware platform(s) and support libraries.
I would like in time to develop not only the hardware and software, the training material needed as well.

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Will add "giant pile of breadboard de-fuzzing caps" to my list.
You can view a google doc from a web browser. It will look like a word document with comments on the side.
I can export that document as a word .docx or .pdf

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Im using GARTHWILSON's potpourri design as a base, and following along with various video tutorials, beyond that, simple experiments like RAM banking and different I/O stuff, Im not ready for a schematic beyond "what I can get working on the bench thats basically what everyone else is doing. beyond that, just building a little set of of parts for rapid prototyping.
A schematic, maybe in a few weeks or months.



Ive been using it for years, I understand others do not like the google.
no worries.



I was hoping for a collaborative, interactive format for schematics. If I can get a wiki or blog set up, really, a wiki would be good.


at the moment, Im just gathering bits and pieces again. I found those Ki-CAD files for 65xx a user here posted.
I might start there. I also saw the Tejotron and there is the rictor modified emulator/simulator.

Im from the emu crowd. Ive been reading stuff on zophar.net for years. I get the difference in terms, jargon wise, the 6502/65816 simulator, assembler and partial debugger that daryl rictor built on top of the one by Michal Kowalski, is an emulator to me
As is nesticle, zsnes9x and ePSXe. I grabbed a copy of that package and there is a 6502 'emulator' online recommended by a university I'll post on, Im going through their course for my initial "operating system".

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I am very much used to Discord and IRC for communication. I also like to just talk and even listen sometimes.
Discord is like IRC with forum threads and voice channels. I might make a lo-tech or Wayfarer Technologies discord server.
Where do I issue the PEEK and POKE commands to give this forum software its built in color patterns? No? Just Eye burn? Its Ok...
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I am looking at bench hardware. I see a couple of multimeters I might get.
I am very hesitant to get an ebay vintage scope for under $100. There are a few 'maybes'.
The weight makes shipping a cost and makes the purchase something to hinge at a different point.
I would rather wait a few months and get a good scope than get a cheap scope that's not calibrated and wonky or breaks.
I am looking at a few bench multimeters and not seeing much I like.
A used yokogawa digital scope is only $100 more than their older, slower analog.
Its yokogawa, so this is not some DSO device running cheap parts, they retail for thousands of dollars.
$299 for a 1540, $399 for a 1620... its a tough call. I like both for different reasons.

For under $150 new and under $50 used I can get a Fluke multimeter (pocket type, some bench types) with a nice set of probes.
I am not real sure on a lot of other multimeter brands, HP, Agilent, a few others ring a bell.
Id like to get a decent multimeter first, though a used scope, I just cant get one fast enough to go further than a breadboard speed. I guess I could look for one thats in the audio range and use that...

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

In addition to a few dozen datasheets, I have the entirety of your primer, most pages on your top bar, the interrupt primer page, some of @8BIT's page, Lee Davison's memorial, Daryl Rictor's page and a few others...

I read really fast. I abhor my numerous professors telling us to 'read for grad school' which is skimming and scanning. I skimmed and scanned some of those datasheets. I read your primers. plural. your tips of the day too, a little a a time, several hundred pages here on the forum.

currently I am interested in:

a basic 6502 tinkerboard, extended to full 65816 later
the Integrity mobile platform and peripherals.
solar controllers, watering controllers, various garden sensors

in the very near future, I plan to explore Mr Davison's work on the Pen Plotter. If I can get a 65134 or two running one of those $150-200 desktop mills on ebay or amazon, Id use it to fab PCBs, I could then just buy double sided copper boards and mill then. sweep the dust up and reclaim it. One of my first jobs in computers was recycling, a 5 gallon bucket full of crushed 286s is a lot of gold to carry across a room. I used to like darkroom stuff, pulling silver out of your drain bucket was a thing. I would greatly consider building and selling quality made PCB mills and milling supplies to the community, and would consider such a design 'open hardware' to bridge the gaps in fabrication.

I am planning to modify the potpourri design slightly, different sizes of RAM and ROM most likely, not sure on layout. I have different needs on a bench vs a mobile device vs a 3d printer or cnc mill.

what kind of machine is needed to make the WDC 6502/65816 in a 40-Pin DIP package?
or even, on a card like eurocard or old PC-ISA card size out of logic gates?

somewhere in there, the "built it all in breadboards" gets us somewhere, and if this tech reaches a certain point, it becomes self sustaining. Id like to house one of those foundries possibly. People make useful chips on silicon wafers in their garage, I just want to make cool computers for people. Like, Make the Computers.

You can I think host a static website for free on GitHub or gitlab.

Im not real sure about the "Gits"; kinda like a few people here do not like the Google.

I looked at InfinityFree, their ToS grants them exclusive rights to whatever you put on their server...

Im looking at godaddy and hostwind, serverrroom, couple others. a dedicated or vpn for under $10 a month. One has pretty decent shared hosting for $3 a month, if I buy a year, I can swing that.

I bought a domain for 5 years. Same company name Ive carried since 2010.

I'll get something set up. When I started college I went for web programming before I went into Game Development.
I might be able to figure something out with one of the basic hosts, I just need LAMP or a PHP/SQL, even a nice wiki preloaded would work fine, make VanillaBB as a blog/customer facing page. I use discord for my social media, I have a few youtube videos;
what I rather want, is a place to host plans, product ideas, kits, information etc.

Eventually, sales and support, for now, something to get the word out about what we are doing over at Wayfarer Technologies

About 'can oscillators'... I've purchased a few common values from this AliExpress vendor in the recent past with good results.