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| GAL suggestions? http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4176 |
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| Author: | cbmeeks [ Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | GAL suggestions? |
I see the GAL22V10 used in many tutorials. But they haven't been made in 6 years or so. I also see the ATF22V10 used as a modern replacement. But, there appears to be issues with programming them? Expensive programmers perhaps? Anyway, what do you guys recommend as a general purpose GAL replacement these days? Is there anything out there that is cheap/easy to program, 5v tolerant and DIP? Or, are those days long gone? (excluding eBay and NOS of course) Thanks! |
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| Author: | 8BIT [ Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
There appears to be some "new" Lattice 22V10's on the market. I believe these are Chinese imitations but I have used them successfully. Try utsource.net or ebay. Daryl |
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| Author: | cbmeeks [ Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
Can they be programmed with a normal "rom" programmer or do they need something different? Thanks. |
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| Author: | BigDumbDinosaur [ Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
cbmeeks wrote: Can they be programmed with a normal "rom" programmer or do they need something different? Thanks. I can program Lattice GALs on my TOPS850 el cheapo programmer, using TOPWIN 2.32. As you noted, the Atmel GALs, while current production, generally can't be programmed by most burners due to Atmel's hink programming algorithm. |
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| Author: | nyef [ Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
One thing about the ATF22V10C is that the programming algorithm is actually mostly known at this point, so you can build your own programmer if you want. |
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| Author: | cbscpe [ Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
nyef wrote: One thing about the ATF22V10C is that the programming algorithm is actually mostly known at this point, so you can build your own programmer if you want. Which still leaves some mysteries. I would say the Wellon VP-290 mentioned in this thread http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3518&p=43558&hilit=wellon#p43558 is an easier option. Else you have to first build a programmer. I have ordered quite some Lattice? GALs from China and they all did work well (except for one batch, but I got my money back). I use a Genius G540 programmer that does it's job to program those GALs. However I would suggest that you also have a look in ATMELs CPLDs. CPLDs have some nice features GALs don't. E.g. programmable clock edge, multiple clock inputs and internal macro cells and in system programmable. The ATF1504AS is a 5V device available in TQFP-44 and PLCC-44 and to program it you only need a JTAG programmer compatible with the ATMISP program ATMEL. ATMEL has some as well for parallel port and USB for about 70USD. Peter |
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| Author: | BigDumbDinosaur [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
cbscpe wrote: However I would suggest that you also have a look in ATMELs CPLDs. CPLDs have some nice features GALs don't. E.g. programmable clock edge, multiple clock inputs and internal macro cells and in system programmable. The ATF1504AS is a 5V device available in TQFP-44 and PLCC-44 and to program it you only need a JTAG programmer compatible with the ATMISP program ATMEL. ATMEL has some as well for parallel port and USB for about 70USD. Also, who knows how long Atmel will continue to produce GALs? The demand for those things has dramatically dropped in the last 10 years, which probably had a lot to do with Lattice and others discontinuing GAL production. The ATF1504AS in PLCC is only slightly larger than a 22V10 GAL, but has much more in the way of logic and I/O resources (32 uncommitted I/O pins, for example). The JTAG port is easy to set up and as Peter notes, frees you from having to remove the device from the system to reprogram it. My POC V2 unit was supposed to have two GALs for glue logic. However, when I looked at the ATF150x series I realized I would be using a stone axe to implement glue logic by using GALs. |
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| Author: | cbmeeks [ Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
BigDumbDinosaur wrote: ...However, when I looked at the ATF150x series I realized I would be using a stone axe to implement glue logic by using GALs. Some of us like stone axes.  Seriously, I may look into getting a JTAG programmer and going the CPLD route. |
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| Author: | cbmeeks [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
What do you guys think of this CPLD as a modern replacement? Through-hole, 24 I/O, 5V tolerant, etc. Looks pricey at $6.75, however. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atm ... rwZSSYQ%3d |
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| Author: | BigEd [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
(Atmel ATF750C [datasheet]) |
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| Author: | BigDumbDinosaur [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
cbmeeks wrote: What do you guys think of this CPLD as a modern replacement? Through-hole, 24 I/O, 5V tolerant, etc. Looks pricey at $6.75, however. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atm ... rwZSSYQ%3d The ATF750 and its big brother, the ATF2500, are really overgrown GALs, not CPLDs. I had looked at the ATF2500 fairly early during the design of POC V2, but scratched it off the list when I realized that the ATF150xAS series was substantially more powerful for little more cost (consider that the ATF1504AS has 32 uncommitted I/O pins in its PLCC44 package). Also, the ATF750 and others of its family do not have a JTAG port and hence must be programmed in a burner that has support for the proprietary Atmel algorithm. I don't recommend the part. |
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| Author: | cbmeeks [ Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
BigDumbDinosaur wrote: Also, the ATF750 and others of its family do not have a JTAG port and hence must be programmed in a burner that has support for the proprietary Atmel algorithm. I don't recommend the part. Which is exactly why I asked.  Thanks! On a side note, I found a few GAL22v10's on eBay for basically nothing. I will tinker around with them a bit. |
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| Author: | 8BIT [ Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
Just found this link. The info may be very out of date ( I didn't really take time to research it) but thought I would add it here in case someone else wanted to. There's a simple GAL and ATF programmer and software listed. http://www.bhabbott.net.nz/atfblast.html Daryl |
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| Author: | BigDumbDinosaur [ Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
Don't forget that I have a standing offer to program Atmel's ATF1504AS and ATF1508AS CPLDs for anyone who wants to go that route. You send me your WinCUPL code (debugged and simulated—that I can't do for you) and one or more CPLDs. I'll send the devices back to you programmed and verified on my Atmel test rig. All it will cost you is some postage. I can also provide a device for you for whatever it costs me. With industry standard GALs becoming unobtanium in many cases and the Atmel ones having a proprietary programming algorithm that is not supported by many burners, small CPLDs are, in my opinion, a better choice for what we are doing. You'll also get more resources to boot. Attachment:
File comment: Atmel CPLD Programming & Test Rig
atmel_cpld_rig01.jpg [ 714.58 KiB | Viewed 4419 times ] |
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| Author: | cbmeeks [ Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GAL suggestions? |
@BDD That is very generous of you to offer that. I may take you up on that offer. Which is easier for you? I send you a couple ATF1504AS's along with a SASE or do you have some around that you could just send me? I would pay in advance with PayPay, of course. Thanks. |
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