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Newbie questions
http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2768		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Aslak3 [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Newbie questions
I'm after some guidance on how to begin playing with CPLDs and FPGAs (one day).

Background: I have a 6809 (I know) project, which is progressing well and I'm learning a lot about loads of different things. My little computer is now fairly useable with a DUART, VIA, bitbanged SPI, IDE interface, sound etc, and at a point where it would be great to use it as a vehicle to learn about an area which I've wanted to learn for the best part of two decades, that is programmable logic.

But what I'm struggling with is how to get started. I have narrowed things down a little bi; the hardware in question should be something I can breadboard first, ideally have a 5V supply and generally work with the rest of the 80s era parts in the computer. Xilinix seems like the best manuf. to go with, if only because the dev tools are free to use.

My first use of PL will (hopefully) be used to replace the glue logic in my current computer, and (hopefully) in the future to implement some peripherals, like an I2C interface, or perhaps something to drive some kind of display.

Here is a list of parts I'm pretty sure I need:

:arrow: XC9572PC44-10C (several)
:arrow: PLCC->DIP adapter for the breadboard
:arrow: PLCC socket for when I eventually use the parts in a PCB :)
:arrow: Xilinx USB Cable Platform
:arrow: PLCC extraction tool

I know the 9572 is EOL, but you can still get them cheaply and this is all about learning some cool tech, not making a sellable product. ;)

It's the programmer I'm most concerend about. Most people seem to use LPT port programmers, but I'll be using my Mac Mini running Windows inside a VM. Can these programmers be used for the CPLD?

I have the ISE Webpack software installed (5GB download!) and am currently trying to decide what language to start with. Verilog seems to look the closest to C (a language I know very well) so I will probably go with that, but am open to suggestions?

Obviously I will start small. A CPLD counter driven by a 555 will be my first little project. ;)

Any questions, suggestions that I'm mad etc, .... please go ahead.
Author:  yzoer [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie questions
You're on the right track!

I'm more of an Altera guy as I loathe the toolchain that Xilinx provides. Anyway, just a matter of personal taste. Depending on how you construct your board, you can easily construct your own wire-wrap adapter by getting a standard PLCC socket and then buying SIP wire-wrap pins.

As for programming cables on a Mac, eBay is your friend. There are lots of people selling Altera / Xilinx compatible USB JTAG-programmers for under $50.

Last but not least, if you're looking for 5v devices, Altera has the EPM7xxx CPLD series which range from 32-128LE's in PLCC and higher for surface mount. They're kinda expensive if you go through digikey or mouser but pretty affordable once again on eBay. I just scored 37 EPM7064 CPLD's for $25 including shipping :-) While CPLD's are great, most of them only can be programmed up to 100 times or so, so make sure you stay within that. Alternative, you can switch to FPGA's. I'm using an Altera FLEX EPF10k10, which has 576 LE's and is a 5v only, 84-pin PLCC which you can configure using JTAG. If you go the altera route, MAKE SURE YOU GET THE 'S' series as those are the only ones that support JTAG. You're screwed otherwise and will need active serial or an expensive programmer..

And no, you're not mad :-)

Yvo
Author:  Arlet [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie questions
For a simple way to get into FPGAs, check out this board:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2740
Author:  Aslak3 [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie questions
yzoer wrote:
You're on the right track!


Crikey. Must be my lucky day!

Quote:
I'm more of an Altera guy as I loathe the toolchain that Xilinx provides. Anyway, just a matter of personal taste. Depending on how you construct your board, you can easily construct your own wire-wrap adapter by getting a standard PLCC socket and then buying SIP wire-wrap pins.


I think I will take a look at both the suites and see which one I prefer. My info that Altera don't have free software was clearly out of date, thankfully. Am in the process downloading it now. I see that they have, just a few months ago, finally dropped support for the MAX7000 chips off of the latest Quartus II software. Pretty good going as I think the chips came out in 1995....

I have never played with wirewrap. In general I try out the circuit on the breadboard, and then get a PCB made up. Wirewrap looks interesting though...

Quote:
Last but not least, if you're looking for 5v devices, Altera has the EPM7xxx CPLD series which range from 32-128LE's in PLCC and higher for surface mount. They're kinda expensive if you go through digikey or mouser but pretty affordable once again on eBay. I just scored 37 EPM7064 CPLD's for $25 including shipping :-)


You must have got the last ones. I can't see much less then US $5 a pop. I'll buy a couple, assuming I get on ok with the ECAD tools, along with a programmer and the other stuff. And maybe a couple of the X9572's assuming I can find one programmer that does both.

Thanks for the tips! I'm sure I will be back later with all kinds of questions. ;)
Author:  BigDumbDinosaur [ Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie questions
Aslak3 wrote:
yzoer wrote:
Last but not least, if you're looking for 5v devices, Altera has the EPM7xxx CPLD series which range from 32-128LE's in PLCC and higher for surface mount. They're kinda expensive if you go through digikey or mouser but pretty affordable once again on eBay. I just scored 37 EPM7064 CPLD's for $25 including shipping :-)


You must have got the last ones. I can't see much less then US $5 a pop. I'll buy a couple, assuming I get on ok with the ECAD tools, along with a programmer and the other stuff. And maybe a couple of the X9572's assuming I can find one programmer that does both.

Thanks for the tips! I'm sure I will be back later with all kinds of questions. ;)

Atmel continues to produce 5 volt CPLDs. Take a look at their AT15xx lineup.
Author:  GARTHWILSON [ Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie questions
Has Cypress become a nobody in that field?
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