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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:38 pm 
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I am going to be filming a rather large video series on a 6502 retro hardware project I have been working on for several years and intend roll it out like a mini series / case study.
Think along the lines of... Jim Butterfield meets Halt and Catch Fire.

In my script, a fictional company (mine) is backed by one of the home computer companies in 1980 to manufacture a unique 6502 based synthesizer to go head to head with the Fairlight CMI.
I want this company to be Commodore and would like to do a few shots that emulate meetings in their boardroom and other scenes (not using any actual names of people).
it would also be cool to use the old familiar Commodore Logo on my final project as if it was rolled out of their R&D lab in the 1980s.

I see that Commodore is actually still up and running as an Italian company rebranding laptops, so I am not sure if this is a good idea.
This is just a personal project and no hardware will be produced for sale, but I am going to be putting several years of hard work in to this and expect a good amount of traffic to my various sites.
The last thing I want is to be 2 years into my 30th episode with 100k subscribers and then have someone send out a legal letter saying "shut it down, that's our brand".

Anyone with knowledge on this kind of thing have any advice?
Is it fine to mention a company of the 80's in a fictional work if they still carry the brand logo today?
Should I just scrap the Commodore scenes altogether and make up another fake company with a similar name instead?

It was quite a shock to find that company using the C= logo and brand when I did some checking as to who owned it today.

Cheers!
Radical Brad


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:44 am 
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Oneironaut wrote:
In my script, a fictional company (mine) is backed by one of the home computer companies in 1980 to manufacture a unique 6502 based synthesizer to go head to head with the Fairlight CMI...I want this company to be Commodore...it would also be cool to use the old familiar Commodore Logo on my final project...

I am not an attorney, but have reason to believe your depiction of the Commodore logo, as well as the company name, as part of a work of fiction may run afoul of copyright law if Commodore the company is central to the story.  On the other hand, if your usage is limited to using Commodore and its logo as a scene-setter in your story, you are probably okay.  Scene-setting in that fashion is common practice in the motion picture industry; it’s in the same category as including film/video of well-known buildings and landmarks as part of the story to establish a locale.

That said, only a lawyer who knows copyright and trademark law can make a positive determination as to what you can do without getting into trouble.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:33 am 
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Agreed, only a lawyer can give you worthwhile advice, and different lawyers might give different advice. You then have to figure out what to do with that advice - figure out what the stakes are and how much you care - it sounds like you really wouldn't want to be scuppered, and that's perhaps your answer.

Perhaps a friendly graphics designer can create something which looks 80s and does the job.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:28 pm 
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Thanks for the comments.

I thought about it again last night and have decided it's not worth the risk and will just make up a fictional 80's company to fit.

Welcome to The Admiral Computer Corporation. We have vertical integration, a CMOS version of the 6502, and produce the famous VIC-40 home computer.
Our founder John Leimart is very interested in meeting with you to discuss a potential partnership. Together we could dominate the music industry.

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:42 pm 
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Oneironaut wrote:
Welcome to The Admiral Computer Corporation. We have vertical integration, a CMOS version of the 6502, and produce the famous VIC-40 home computer.

How about naming your fictitious computer the “VIC-02?”  That would steer clear of any trademark issues, yet make a roundabout connection to the VIC-20 and Commodore, plus get part of “6502” in there.  Also, there would be no reason why you couldn’t bastardize the C= logo, again making that roundabout connection.  I’ve seen things such as that done many times in movies and TV programs.

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Our founder John Leimart is very interested in meeting with you to discuss a potential partnership.  Together we could dominate the music industry.

John Leimart?  Funny how search engine results on that name mostly return hits to a pediatrician in the USA.  :D  As for the music angle, it’s ironic the VIC-20 had relatively little music capability compared to the C-64.

Incidentally, VIC is a supposedly-naughty word in German, which caused some controversy for Commodore when marketing the VIC-20 in then-West Germany. They ended up advertising it as the VC-20.  Furthermore, the C-64 when in prototype was referred to as the VIC-40.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:46 pm 
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I like it, thanks!
VIC-02 it shall be.

I chose the VIC-20 to push that 1980 date. In my hardware, I am using the keyboard form a VIC and a drive mechanism from a VIC-1541 drive. My video circuit and main OS computer is a derivative of the PET, using mostly logic and a 6502. All of these parts will be licensed from said fictitious company using their supplier network. At one point, there was even a deal with Sequential Circuits for the piano keyboard they once sold.

Because of having these parts available in volume, taking on Fairlight by offering a more affordable and more powerful synth would have been completely feasible back in the day.

I have decided on the name Jacques Leimart as the president of Admiral Computers. Commodore fanboys (like me) will know who that is right away!
I also like your idea for hacking the old chicken head logo into something with the same cheesy flavor.

Ps,
Thanks for dropping by my little forum - seen your name pass by the other day!

Cheers,
Brad




BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Oneironaut wrote:
Welcome to The Admiral Computer Corporation. We have vertical integration, a CMOS version of the 6502, and produce the famous VIC-40 home computer.

How about naming your fictitious computer the “VIC-02?”  That would steer clear of any trademark issues, yet make a roundabout connection to the VIC-20 and Commodore, plus get part of “6502” in there.  Also, there would be no reason why you couldn’t bastardize the C= logo, again making that roundabout connection.  I’ve seen things such as that done many times in movies and TV programs.

Quote:
Our founder John Leimart is very interested in meeting with you to discuss a potential partnership.  Together we could dominate the music industry.

John Leimart?  Funny how search engine results on that name mostly return hits to a pediatrician in the USA.  :D  As for the music angle, it’s ironic the VIC-20 had relatively little music capability compared to the C-64.

Incidentally, VIC is a supposedly-naughty word in German, which caused some controversy for Commodore when marketing the VIC-20 in then-West Germany. They ended up advertising it as the VC-20.  Furthermore, the C-64 when in prototype was referred to as the VIC-40.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:08 pm 
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You could change the name to something like "Come-Indoors."  (You can probably come up with a better one.)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:09 pm 
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It's going to be fun now that I can take some liberties with names!



GARTHWILSON wrote:
You could change the name to something like "Come-Indoors."  (You can probably come up with a better one.)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:25 pm 
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If there's some way to easily edit together 2 versions, release the version with "Commodore" everything. Then, if someone gets a bug up their nose about it, swap it out for the legally distinct version, even if it's just badly overdubbed clips. IIRC, an episode of Quantum Leap about evil 1980s D&D ended up badly overdubbing "Demons and Dragons" or something over every verbal mention, and still aired it.

The claimed C= "rights" are split between multiple small companies in multiple countries, some of which are very doubtful according to some in the scene who have delved into the matter. The trademark is probably less muddled, though, but I'm not sure how big these fish actually get.

In any case, if you're doing a clear parody of Commodore, that'd be protected.

But then again, I might be a bit of a rabble-rouser in such matters. ;)

(Also, "Commode Odor" is the best pun I remember from the annual Speccy flamewars of yore)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:52 am 
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White Flame wrote:
(Also, "Commode Odor" is the best pun I remember from the annual Speccy flamewars of yore)

I recall that one...usually uttered by Apple ][ fanatics.  :D

Speaking of Commodore stuff, I have been cleaning out old computer cr*p from my “graveyard” (space under the stairs in the utility room) and in the process, dug out my C-128DCR.  I haven’t touched the thing for some 12 years—it got put away after the only video monitor I had that could do RGBI went seriously kaput, literally going up in smoke.  A post mortem on the monitor discovered that the flyback transformer had internally shorted out, taking out a bunch of parts with it.  At the time, I intermittently searched around for another flyback, without success.  So the rig got buried.

Anyhow, curious to see if the 128D would power up, I plugged it in and turned it on.  I could hear the floppy drive cycle in a way consistent with attempting to read a boot sector off a disk.  So it appears the computer is still functional to some extent.

There apparently has been some fairly-recent progress made with adapting the 128D’s RGBI video output to a standard VGA monitor.  I’ve got several Viewsonic 17" monitors in storage (my company is a Viewsonic dealer), so maybe I’ll see about tracking down the hardware needed to hook up one of those monitors to the 128D.  Then I can step back in time to about 38 years ago and remind myself what it was like to make a 2 MHz machine perform like a cheap minicomputer.

Oh, did I mention I also have a Lt. Kernal hard disk subsystem to go with the 128D?  :D  Not sure that I will hook up the entire mess and do anything with it.  After all, I do have POC V1.3, whose clock runs eight times faster than the 128D’s in FAST mode.  Plus V1.3’s SCSI performance is about 12 times faster than the 128D/Lt. Kernal combination can achieve...

But there’s that old-time SID music to be had.  Hmm...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:17 am 
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Cast your eyes over Adrian Black's youtube channel; I think he's done something recently regarding replacing the video with VGA (something with a Pi Pico I believe).

Neil


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:02 pm 
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barnacle wrote:
Cast your eyes over Adrian Black's youtube channel; I think he's done something recently regarding replacing the video with VGA (something with a Pi Pico I believe).

Funny you should mention that.  I found out that there is a tech by the name of John R. Carlsen who has developed an adapter that converts the 128D’s RGBI to analog RGB.  On his website, he also mentions a gadget that converts analog RGB to VGA.  So two pieces of hardware “in series” allows a garden-variety VGA display to be driven from the 128D.  If nothing else, it means a larger screen would be available to display those grainy characters that were close to state-of-the-art back when the 128D was new.

It looks to be about $100 of hardware.  I’m trying to decide if I, once again, want to go down the Commodore rabbit hole that I managed to escape many years ago.  :?  Also, there is the possibility that after springing for the video hardware and hooking up the 128D to a monitor, the computer turns out to not be fully functional.  The other question is what, exactly, would I do with a 38-year-old computer?  :?:  Also, the unspoken question, sure to be asked by my wife, is do I, an almost-octogenarian, need yet another computer project?  :D

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:55 pm 
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Although, in his most recent video, Adrian is somewhat surprised that a modern copy of an IBM CGA card has the same video artifacts as the original...

Neil


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 5:06 pm 
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barnacle wrote:
Although, in his most recent video, Adrian is somewhat surprised that a modern copy of an IBM CGA card has the same video artifacts as the original...

Funny thing about that...an exact replica of a 1950 Buick looks, runs and handles(?) as well as the original.  No reason a replica of a CGA card would be any better than the IBM offering of 40-some years ago.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:37 pm 
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I considered that as well, but then remembered an experience I had last year on Youtube.
I had posted 2 versions of my Portable Chicken Coop build with different background music. Both were "royalty free - full use".
My music is retro synth style, so I wanted a more country tone. Since that style is not at all in my wheelhouse, that is why I used it.

The first video hit over 5 million views in a few months and then I received a message that I had to "royalty share" due to a claim.
Seems the trend is to claim that the music is completely public domain and then try to snag up royalties once a video does well.
Since I hate trickery, I deleted the video even though it had almost 11 million views. I am like that.

Luckily, the second video is also reaching 3 million views, so it still has some traction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6GIX1BuhtM

Anyhow, I will not take any risks now with my publications.
I expect that my Synth Build Series will easily rocket to over 10 million views in short time once I start releasing it.
I don't want any bumps, so any musical ambience will be of my own design and all branding and logos will be my own works of fiction.

Going to play it safe on this one.

Brad




White Flame wrote:
If there's some way to easily edit together 2 versions, release the version with "Commodore" everything. Then, if someone gets a bug up their nose about it, swap it out for the legally distinct version, even if it's just badly overdubbed clips. IIRC, an episode of Quantum Leap about evil 1980s D&D ended up badly overdubbing "Demons and Dragons" or something over every verbal mention, and still aired it.

The claimed C= "rights" are split between multiple small companies in multiple countries, some of which are very doubtful according to some in the scene who have delved into the matter. The trademark is probably less muddled, though, but I'm not sure how big these fish actually get.

In any case, if you're doing a clear parody of Commodore, that'd be protected.

But then again, I might be a bit of a rabble-rouser in such matters. ;)

(Also, "Commode Odor" is the best pun I remember from the annual Speccy flamewars of yore)


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