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floobydust
 Post subject: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:00 am 
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I get emails from Antique Electronic Supply, aka Tubes and More (mainly a site for electric guitar parts and vacuum tube guitar amps). Their latest shows some new products, of which there are numerous SMT to DIP adapter PCBs which are quite inexpensive (compared to the usual ones from Mouser, etc.).

These might be worth taking a look at in case anyone is looking to do some prototyping with SMT parts.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/n ... cts?page=1

The adapter PCBs start on Page 2 (selected at the bottom of the list) and the link above actually shows Page 2 ;-)

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:03 am 
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floobydust wrote:
I get emails from Antique Electronic Supply, aka Tubes and More (mainly a site for electric guitar parts and vacuum tube guitar amps). Their latest shows some new products, of which there are numerous SMT to DIP adapter PCBs which are quite inexpensive (compared to the usual ones from Mouser, etc.).

These might be worth taking a look at in case anyone is looking to do some prototyping with SMT parts.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/n ... cts?page=1

The adapter PCBs start on Page 2 (selected at the bottom of the list) and the link above actually shows Page 2 ;-)

A bit OT: I was startled to see they have these. That was the “zener diode” of the tube era. Haven't fooled with one since the 1970s.

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GARTHWILSON
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:22 am 
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Shucks, I was hoping for a tube-to-SMT adapter. :lol: Say—there's an idea! SMT tubes! Actually, I did see something one time about vacuum tubes made kind of like transistors, with a litho process, so tiny you needed a microscope to see them IIRC, but I can't think of proper search terms to find it again. Because they were so tiny, they were very low-voltage, like 5V for the plate voltage. I'm sure it was just an article about an idea, not an announcement of anything in production.

In all seriousness though, thanks for the link. It's always good to know where such resources are. It's nice they have a SOT23-to-TO92 adapter too.

Edit: Related, while we're at it and the following doesn't warrant its own topic, I'm out of 40-pin DIP headers, and I see Digi-Key's are a startling $6.40 each! Anyone know of a less-expensive source for this kind of thing? Jameco's don't go up to that many pins anymore.
Attachment:
DIPheader40.jpg
DIPheader40.jpg [ 18.77 KiB | Viewed 1085 times ]

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floobydust
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:03 am 
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Haha... actually I still have a decent collection of the older OA2 and 0B2 VR tubes. I even have a dozen or so of the 5651A voltage reference tubes, mostly all in JAN spec and original boxes.

As for having a vacuum tube in a smaller flat pack mounting, take a look at the KORG 6P1 twin triode vacuum tube:

https://www.korgnutube.com/en

While interesting, I'll continue to design and build my personal audio gear with proper NOS tubes, of which I have quite an adequate stock :D

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:55 am 
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floobydust wrote:
While interesting, I'll continue to design and build my personal audio gear with proper NOS tubes, of which I have quite an adequate stock :D

I have a matched pair of RCA “black plate” 6L6GCs, which are spares for my 1966 Ampeg B15 bass amp. I also have some NOS 6SN7GTs, which are used in the earlier stages of the amp.

I actually haven't used that amp in about four years because I'm not strong enough any more to pick up the beast (~100 pounds) and get it into or out of the trunk of my car. After undergoing open-heart surgery in 2018, I had to switch to the much lighter Fender Rumble 200, which of course, is solid state. It has a “cold” sound compared to the old Ampeg, but it doesn't have those great big transformers full of iron and copper, nor doesn't it have the heavy floating-baffle cabinet. It also doesn't have that smoothness at the low end. :cry:

As for the OA2, when I was in high school and with the help of the science teacher, who built his own hi-fi tube amps, I designed and built a 100 watt amp using the then-new Sylvania 8417 beam tetrode. Borrowing from a circuit that was published in the RCA tube manual, I used the OA2 along with a 6SN7 (metal type, not glass) to produce a regulated screen voltage supply for the 8417s. With the screen voltage being very “stiff” no matter the loading, the THD was very low at full power and the amp was very loud—the bass response was unreal. :D

I ended up building a second one for my new stereo setup, which used a Dynaco tube preamp I assembled from a kit. I used the amps until the mid-1980s, at which time I switched to a Dynaco 400 watt solid state unit. I stupidly scrapped the tube amps in 1990 when I relocated—all tube production ceased in the USA c. 1986.

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floobydust
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:51 am 
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Ah, the good ole days of vacuum tube gear. I still have a collection of old Dynaco stuff... but have been selling it off over time. I started using Hashimoto transformers for all my new designs. These are still being manufactured in Japan and are among the best I've found anywhere... not cheap however.

Tubes... I still have about 80 or so 45 directly-heated triodes (DHTs), about 60 2A3 DHTs, some 71a and even a matched pair of Western Electric 300B. Moving into beam power tubes.... 5881, 6L6GC, 8- brand new Tung-Sol 6550 in the original JAN boxes from 1969, a few matched pair of MO-Valve KT-88s (the real ones), GE 6550A and other smaller 9-pin types like EL84/6BQ5 and more. I have dozens of twin triodes and NOS rectifiers (GZ34, 5AR4, 5V4, 5R4, etc.) and the list goes on.... I've been collecting since the 60's.

I got the single-ended DHT bug some years ago and designed a number of amplifiers using the 45, 2A3, 300B and even the old Eimac/Norelco 3C24 transmitting triode... have 808's too.

I'm hoping to get back to finishing up more tube gear over the winter months... we'll see. Teaser pics of my 45 DHT monoblock.

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IMG_0698.JPG [ 2.08 MiB | Viewed 1034 times ]

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:09 pm 
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Those transformers look a lot like the ones in my Ampeg amp, except the Ampeg's are OEM.

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floobydust
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:39 pm 
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Pretty sure the original Ampeg iron was potted in mu-metal lined cases... hence the look. Even early Dyna outputs could be ordered in potted cans.

Hashimoto is a spin-off from Sansui... includes all of the IP, designs, patents, buildings, equipment and people! Isao is from Japan and is the sole distributor in the US... and a super nice guy.

http://www.tube-amps.net/Hashimoto_Products.htm

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:32 pm 
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floobydust wrote:
Pretty sure the original Ampeg iron was potted in mu-metal lined cases... hence the look. Even early Dyna outputs could be ordered in potted cans.

Hashimoto is a spin-off from Sansui... includes all of the IP, designs, patents, buildings, equipment and people! Isao is from Japan and is the sole distributor in the US... and a super nice guy.

http://www.tube-amps.net/Hashimoto_Products.htm

Pricey buggers!

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floobydust
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:26 pm 
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Yes, quite pricey! But the fit, finish, quality and performance does justify the pricing. I've got quite a large selection of their iron... it's all very impressive.

The little 45 amps (pics above) is a zero feedback design. Basic performance specs are:

Power Output: Rated at 2-Watts RMS (2.25 Watts before clipping)
Frequency Response: 25Hz - 50KHz +0/-1dB @ 1-watt output
Distortion: ~ 0.35% THD @ 1KHz at 1-Watt output (drops at higher frequencies, gains a bit at lower frequencies)
Signal-to-noise: upwards of 90dB below 1-watt reference (with very good tubes) Average tubes around 80dB S/N

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:38 pm 
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floobydust wrote:
The little 45 amps (pics above) is a zero feedback design. Basic performance specs are:

Power Output: Rated at 2-Watts RMS (2.25 Watts before clipping)
Frequency Response: 25Hz - 50KHz +0/-1dB @ 1-watt output
Distortion: ~ 0.35% THD @ 1KHz at 1-Watt output (drops at higher frequencies, gains a bit at lower frequencies)
Signal-to-noise: upwards of 90dB below 1-watt reference (with very good tubes) Average tubes around 80dB S/N

The THD is very low for a unit with no negative feedback. I’m guessing those super-expensive Hashimoto output transformers are a factor.

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floobydust
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:52 pm 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
floobydust wrote:
The little 45 amps (pics above) is a zero feedback design. Basic performance specs are:

Power Output: Rated at 2-Watts RMS (2.25 Watts before clipping)
Frequency Response: 25Hz - 50KHz +0/-1dB @ 1-watt output
Distortion: ~ 0.35% THD @ 1KHz at 1-Watt output (drops at higher frequencies, gains a bit at lower frequencies)
Signal-to-noise: upwards of 90dB below 1-watt reference (with very good tubes) Average tubes around 80dB S/N

The THD is very low for a unit with no negative feedback. I’m guessing those super-expensive Hashimoto output transformers are a factor.


The transformers helps a lot... including the wide frequency response. The design was a 8-month project for me... each stage designed from the output to input and optimized along the way... swapping 30+ tubes to ensure the performance was good. Gain is about 250mv for full output. The input/driver stages combined voltage gain is 150 V/V, about 43 dB.

Attachment:
AT45-SET_Schematic.pdf [42.04 KiB]
Downloaded 38 times

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BigDumbDinosaur
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:58 pm 
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floobydust wrote:
BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
floobydust wrote:
The little 45 amps (pics above) is a zero feedback design. Basic performance specs are:

Power Output: Rated at 2-Watts RMS (2.25 Watts before clipping)
Frequency Response: 25Hz - 50KHz +0/-1dB @ 1-watt output
Distortion: ~ 0.35% THD @ 1KHz at 1-Watt output (drops at higher frequencies, gains a bit at lower frequencies)
Signal-to-noise: upwards of 90dB below 1-watt reference (with very good tubes) Average tubes around 80dB S/N

The THD is very low for a unit with no negative feedback. I’m guessing those super-expensive Hashimoto output transformers are a factor.

The transformers helps a lot... including the wide frequency response. The design was a 8-month project for me... each stage designed from the output to input and optimized along the way... swapping 30+ tubes to ensure the performance was good. Gain is about 250mv for full output. The input/driver stages combined voltage gain is 150 V/V, about 43 dB.

Attachment:
AT45-SET_Schematic.pdf

I was never really into single-ended triode outputs, although a guy I knew in the 1970s, Ed Reichert, got into class-A single-ended triodes in a big way, with several tubes in parallel to boost the output. His designs produced exceptionally clean sound, but seemed to be weak at the low frequency end, probably because all that plate current going one way through the output transformer was saturating the core. They also were terribly inefficient. Only about 10 percent of the input power ended up as output power. Even a class-AB2 output looks efficient in comparison.

My designs were always class-AB1 push-pull using 6L6s, KT88s or 8417s. I did briefly monkey with a class-B design, but just couldn’t overcome the crossover distortion that was painfully apparent at low volume levels. I also liked directly-heated rectumfryer tubes, due to their better transient response to sudden load changes. Later on, I started using sillycone diodes instead of tubes for producing B+, which made for a "stiffer" power supply that delayed the onset of clipping. THD for a push-pull design wasn't as low as with a single-ended design, but at normal listening levels, was imperceptible.

Choice of output tube brands mattered. I always thought Mullard's were the best and sounded the cleanest, but they didn't make all of the types. Their matched sets were very good.

I got away from tube stereo in the 1980s, and after OEM tube production stopped in the USA, I lost interest. I’ve occasionally entertained the idea of getting back into tubes, but none of the currently-available tubes are all that good, and costs for other parts are too high. Also, I already have too many projects going...I don’t need yet another. :D

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BillO
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:18 am 
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I have my own SMT to DIP adapters made up at one of the cheap Chinese PCB houses. I usually get 5 for a total expenditure of about $6 US shipped to my address.

Interesting progression in this thread though.

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BillO
 Post subject: Re: SMT to DIP adapters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:25 am 
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floobydust wrote:
As for having a vacuum tube in a smaller flat pack mounting, take a look at the KORG 6P1 twin triode vacuum tube:

https://www.korgnutube.com/en

Does something like this, as amazing as it is, still behave like 12AX7A or similar from the day?

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