Happy New Year and happy hacking in 2016!

[magetoo]

Just wanted to wish everyone on the forum a happy new year, and good fortune in 2016, especially with your 6502-based or electronics projects more generally.


Myself, I'm hoping to get started on my from-scratch build; getting an 8-bit system up and running, bootstrapping everything from nothing without "cheating" by using something that's already there (like cross-assemblers, microcontrollers or FPGAs). It's a challenge that ought to be interesting!

What projects do you have planned for the coming year?

[BigDumbDinosaur]

magetoo wrote:

Myself, I'm hoping to get started on my from-scratch build; getting an 8-bit system up and running, bootstrapping everything from nothing without "cheating" by using something that's already there (like cross-assemblers, microcontrollers or FPGAs).

Even I, a relative 65xx purist, would not consider using a cross-assembler as cheating. It's all I have been using since the early 1990s to develop 65xx programs.

That said, once I get my POC V2 unit working I may consider developing an assembler that can run on it.

Quote:

What projects do you have planned for the coming year?

With any luck my eyesight will come back as I recover from the surgery and I can get POC V2 built and running. The parts are here. I just can't see well enough to solder that dinky stuff.

[magetoo]

Well, the goal is to build something starting with nothing. Nothing wrong with cross-assemblers except that you have to build the system that runs it first.

Building an 8-bit system is going to be easier than putting something together that runs Unix. :-)

[mkl0815]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to wish a happy new year to all of you. A lot of fun and inspiration for your life and all your projects.
My next project will not be 6502 related, because after about 28 years I finally got a computer kit that wanted to have in the late 80s before the German reunion. It was one of the few available kits in the eastern part of Germany this time and it was quite expensive for this time (965,- M, enough to pay your rent for about half a year). I ordered my kit in 1987/88 at the age of 14/15 but I never got it, because of a long delay in delivery (like much other things in the eastern part of Germany) and after the reunion of the eastern and western part of Germany they stopped producing and selling those kits. I still have the postcard with the order confirmation somewhere. Now I picked up one of these kits on Ebay some days ago, original boxed, with all handbooks and all parts. The kit was never used and is in really good condition. Two days ago I powered it up for the first time since it was sent out in September 1988 and it works. It's in a condition like it had been delivered to me 28 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotron_Z1013
Beside of this I will do some further work on MOUSE to get some storage for loading and saving programs and data. There will also be an article about my 6502 computer in a Germany news portal.

Mario.

[BigEd]

(interesting machine Mario - did you get the 8x4 keyboard too?)

[BigDumbDinosaur]

mkl0815 wrote:

My next project will not be 6502 related, because after about 28 years I finally got a computer kit that wanted to have in the late 80s before the German reunion.

I read the Wikipedia article on this kit. Interesting machine. You have to admire whomever it was that had the knowledge and patience to reverse-engineer(?) the Z80 to make the MPU for this kit.

Quote:

It was one of the few available kits in the eastern part of Germany this time and it was quite expensive for this time (965,- M, enough to pay your rent for about half a year). I ordered my kit in 1987/88 at the age of 14/15...I still have the postcard with the order confirmation somewhere.

I'm thinking that that postcard has some historical value. It and the general circumstances that surrounded your ordering of the kit—and never receiving it—highlight in a small way one of the many reasons for the fundamental failure of communism as a governing model.

Quote:

Beside of this I will do some further work on MOUSE to get some storage for loading and saving programs and data. There will also be an article about my 6502 computer in a Germany news portal.

Please post the link to that article when it is published. A close friend of mine, who is interested in computer hardware and is a distantly native speaker of German (his family emigrated to the USA in the 1950s), would probably like to read it. In fact, I'll get him to translate it so I can read it as well.

[Tor]

Hm, BDD, it wasn't the political system which failed to produce the kit in time, it was because that company and many others were simply shut down when the wall fell and the countries reunited. As it sometimes happens, timing is unlucky.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Tor wrote:

Hm, BDD, it wasn't the political system which failed to produce the kit in time, it was because that company and many others were simply shut down when the wall fell and the countries reunited. As it sometimes happens, timing is unlucky.

The reunification of Germany didn't occur until 1990, two to three years after Mario had ordered the kit. Although early diplomatic activity involving reunification had begun in mid-1989, the time period in which he had placed his order would not have been affected by said events—they were well into the future.

The realities of the time were that communism had put a major damper on productivity in every aspect of the Soviet bloc's economy (a manifestation of this was the USSR's repeated purchases of grain from Canada and the USA during the 1980s to compensate for lack of productivity—I was well-acquainted at the time with Canada's role in the grain sales). Shortages of everything, including basic necessities, were a way of life in the Soviet bloc. This is a matter of historical record.

If the average German living under communism had trouble getting necessities, you can be sure that getting a computer kit would have been a monumental trial of patience. So yes, the political system did play a role in preventing Mario from getting the kit he had ordered.

Anyhow, I'm glad he did get something that he wanted long ago but was not able to acquire. I can think of one or two things I would have liked to have had when I was in my early teens, as Mario was when he wanted his Robotron kit.

[GARTHWILSON]

At about the same time (mid-1980's), I bought a Timex Sinclaire 1000, assembled, having a Z80 and a membrane keyboard, for a couple hours' wages. I never did much with it.

I'm hoping for a 65-productive year, although I don't have specific plans laid out yet. It should involve more hardware and less writing for my website though.

[magetoo]

Of the two topics that are guaranteed to ruin a discussion, I would have thought that it would be religion that would get this one, not politics. (The religious war of Z80 vs 6502, specifically.)

Mario, what kind of project do you have in mind for the Z1013? Memory expansion? Permanent storage? May I suggest a 6502 co-processor? :-)

[satpro]

GARTHWILSON wrote:

I'm hoping for a 65-productive year, although I don't have specific plans laid out yet. It should involve more hardware and less writing for my website though.

Many hands make light work....

This site is growing and it goes without saying you've done your part. I mean, don't stop! ...but membership is up and it seems like the hardware guys are starting to crawl out of the ... places where they hang out (wherever that is -- I love and admire 'em though -- special people).

I speak for many of us (from tons of experience with it) when I say it is hard to release your effort to/for peer review, especially when you're new and trying to make a good impression and don't know the players. In the past I have been picked apart personally for some good progressive ideas and code, new things even (and some not so good), but for no reason other than my trampling on sacred earth -- the forum bully didn't like it. ALL crowds are tough crowds, and it is that one thing (in every forum) which ALWAYS prevents a good flow of ideas and output. Remember, we are not really all peers here. On paper -- sure, we're all peers, and that is how it should be. But it turns out that a few speak loudly, while most sit back and continue learning the craft in solitude, finding ways to avoid adverse criticism (and destructive opinion). Meanwhile... nothing valuable (not even a nugget) is contributed. It winds up being a forum full of hot air and attitude. 6502.org ain't bad --> you should see what Lemon and csdb are like (for the c64 crowd). Your head would blow. It's the new-normal everywhere, unfortunately.

Garth, you're kind of a big shot here (a wink, friend), so if you know Mike N. at all, why not suggest a "sandbox" forum room to him -- with the golden rule being "you keep your negative feelings to yourself at all cost" and see how that flies. We do it over at the MASM site, and it works like a charm. The real members respect it as an ideal and police it voluntarily. This place is so lucky to have hardware guys lurking everywhere. Even the wannabes are impressive and full of ideas. Myself alone, I have a 35-year world chock full of original software and ideas -- museum, cutting edge, experimental -- you name it, a 16-bit operating system even, yet outside of you and Mike (barry...) -- no other contact with anyone whatsoever here, which is really crazy because this place is dripping with hardware guys.

In other words, 2016 should be the year for a new hardware project, something original from 6502.org, and something we can show to the world as something we did together. Your contribution will be your Forth, which is what I and others will use to craft the operating system that becomes the hobbyist's dream come true. We have the VGA guys, we have the audiophiles, we have the OSers, and we have the solder-heads. What we don't have is the direction or consensus -- and we don't have the sandbox.

Happy New Year!

P.S. I liked the PM you sent me, thank you....

[barrym95838]

I would like to announce my New Year's resolution to make a concerted effort to get off my duff and pick up some fresh hardware and software skills. I want to bring my 65m32 concept to FPGA silicon this year, and I simply don't have the necessary skills to get it there yet.

I'm thinking of night school and on-line courses to get me on the right track, and I'm also keeping an eye out for a job in the computer hardware industry that involves more than just working on an assembly line. Thirty years of bending over car fenders have taken their toll on my body and spirit, and I'm ready for a change. I turn 50 years old on Monday ... could this be my version of a mid-life crisis? Well, at least I don't plan on buying a Corvette ... my little Kia still gets the job done quite nicely.

I would like to thank everyone participating and moderating here, for making this forum alive and entertaining. Sure, there are off-topic excursions, heated discussions ... things can even get a bit chippy from time-to-time ... but my overall impression is overwhelmingly positive. It still amazes me how small the world seems to have become, as the internet has found its way to so many great people who are willing to listen, share, and contribute.

I wish for a happy and prosperous new year to all!

Mike B.

[satpro]

I'm sorry, I was so tangled up I forgot to mention my 2016 goal: push to see the development of a new 16-bit home computer system built around the 65816 -- and I wish to be a part of it. Reasonable graphics, any disk system, standard 65x-compatible I/O, and that it should be open to all as in open source, free, and for the benefit of all.

Real nice, Mike. You're consistent -- always looking to improve. Oh, and Happy Birthday!! Welcome to the 50+ club (as if it's a selling point)

[BigDumbDinosaur]

satpro wrote:

I'm sorry, I was so tangled up I forgot to mention my 2016 goal: push to see the development of a new 16-bit home computer system built around the 65816 -- and I wish to be a part of it.

Hmmm...sounds familiar.

Quote:

Reasonable graphics, any disk system, standard 65x-compatible I/O, and that it should be open to all as in open source, free, and for the benefit of all.

RE: the disk system, I've periodically gone into fits of research trying to learn enough about SATA to see if it's viable with the 65C816. To date, I have been unable to find anything in the way of a SATA controller that is the analog of the 53CF94 SCSI controller I use with POC. The protocol is, I think, too complicated to bit-bang, so some sort of ASIC seems to be mandatory.

If SATA can be implemented then the door has been opened to inexpensive, high capacity mass storage via readily available commodity disks.

[GARTHWILSON]

SD cards go up to a significant portion of a terabyte now, and they're much smaller than any disc drive and have transfer rates higher than any '816 system we'll make will be doing. Wear-out used to be a concern, and then they came out with wear-leveling algorithms so a portion you write to all the time would get moved after so many writes, but I think the endurance now is high enough we don't have to worry about it. If we get into details, it would be good material for another forum topic. I would be quite interested myself.