I looked at several images of microprocessor. I am interested to learn CMOS. Is that possible to do reverse engineering on 65C02 and 65816 microprocessors?

Take care,
Bryan Parkoff

I believe Ed is working on the 65C02 and 65CE02.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Hi Garth,

What is 65CE02 with the letter 'E'? If Ed is doing reverse engineering on 65C02, he may spend time focusing the connection between transistors and nodes. He can always label all the nodes with numbers and no names, but he can only label the name on chip's pinouts. I will go ahead and analyze all of them before I am able to label most nodes with names.

I noticed that 6502 has 50% missing node name as long as nodes always show the numbers. Most of the time, I am able to fill the gaps in my own while studying transistor by transistor and gate logics.

What about 65816 in reverse engineering?

Take care,
Bryan Parkoff

See the data sheet at http://archive.6502.org/datasheets/mos_65ce02_mpu.pdf. 'CE02 features included (but were not limited to):

• it got rid of most of the dead bus cycles
• had a 16-bit stack pointer
• had a relocatable zero page
• had a third index register Z (which was initialized at 00 for compatibility with the 'C02 STZ instruction)
• had word-relative branches so all branching could be done to any address in the 64KB memory map
• had stack-relative addressing
• had RTN# instruction which was like RTS but adjusted the stack by the number of bytes in the operand
• had word increment, decrement, shift, and stack functions
• had NEG A (negate accumulator) and ASR (arithmetic shift right) instructions

Not very many were made. I have two. It was a great upgrade to the 65C02, but the '816 probably made it kind of pointless.


I have not heard of any plan to do that. Ed is the one to answer these better, but I jumped in to keep you from waiting. I don't know how soon Ed will be available to respond.

_________________
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources
The "second front page" is http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html .
What's an additional VIA among friends, anyhow?

Not exactly... the loose collective behind the visual6502 is slowly making progress on several chips. I do have an interest in making progress - I'd like to see the results! - but have no special influence.
See http://visual6502.org/wiki/index.php?ti ... collection for a partial picture of work in progress.
For the 65CE02, John McMaster has published a page including a "slippy map" of a high-res photo:
http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php ... cbm:65ce02
This is a depackaged but not deprocessed device, so seeing the metal is easy but seeing the lower layers is less easy.
You can immediately see that it will be (would be) a lot of work to do the polygon recapture.

Cheers
Ed

Hi Ed,

Have anyone already photographed 65C02 chip and 65816 chip with highest resolution microscope? If anyone wants to look at the photo while is constructing polygon, what requirement can he be able to accomplish the goal?

Take care,
Bryan Parkoff

Hi Bryan
I don't know of any such photos. A 10x magnification might be enough, but 20x is what John uses. (Assuming some adequately high resolution imaging at the eyepiece end!)
Once you've photographed, you need to stitch. Success in stitching will depend on how good your images are, for planarity, focus, and evenness of illumination.
When you have your huge image, you now need to capture polygons. I think people have used various software, including the Gimp, and Photoshop, and other photo-editing software. No-one has had much success with automatic feature recognition - it's always manual.
See for example http://www.qmtpro.com/~nes/chipimages/ for some info. There's a program called degate which is supposed to help with structured/repetitive layouts but I don't think I've seen results from it. See http://www.degate.org/status.html
Cheers
Ed